Huge engine oil consumption

Talk about the E-Type Series 1

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Lorenzo
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#1 Huge engine oil consumption

Post by Lorenzo » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:26 pm

Hi,
drinking 1 liter of engine oil every 150 Km I can say that my car is a real oil devourer !

Engine compression seems to be ok, sparke plugs are quite dry.

I have to bring the car to a specialist to fix the problem, but in the meantime I would like to ask your opinion about this problem.

The car spits oil from exhaust and also makes white smoke during acceleration.

Valve seals, piston rings, where do you think could be the problem ?
S1 4.2 2+2 Automatic 1966

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1954Etype
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#2 Re: Huge engine oil consumption

Post by 1954Etype » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:34 pm

It could be a blocked breather gauze or pipe. Worth checking before carrying out any major work.
Angus 65 OTS 1E11497. 67 FHC 1E33656

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Lorenzo
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#3

Post by Lorenzo » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:08 pm

Hi 1954,
thinking at a blocked breather gauze or pipe, where do you think is the "disappeared" oil ?
S1 4.2 2+2 Automatic 1966

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christopher storey
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#4

Post by christopher storey » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:40 pm

The white smoke under acceleration sounds very like head gasket failure . Are you also losing coolant at a noticeable rate ? Also, spitting oil ( by which I presume you mean unburnt oil ) from the exhaust is a very unusual symptom, and I wonder whether either your engine is being enormously overfilled with oil - often the result of a bent dipstick - or whether you have some very significant valve or guide wear. However, this usually shows itself as copious blue smoke on the overrun, which you do not mention. As Angus suggests, I would first check the breathers, and also ensure that the engine is not being overfilled

One more thought : you are not using synthetic oil are you ? - Synthetics are wholly unsuitable for XK engines which have very wide tolerances by modern standards

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Lorenzo
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#5

Post by Lorenzo » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:55 pm

I will try to resume the current situation:

- average engine oil consumption - 1 liter/150 Km
- engine oil not overfilled (oil dipstick ok)
- no oil around the engine head or lower engine
- engine oil type- Penrite 20W60
- white smoke when driving
- good engine compression
- almost dry sparks plugs
- good "noise" from the engine

The spotting liquid from the exhaust system seems more like a black water, not so dense like oil and lighter than oil.

Few oil leaks from the bottom of the car (engine, gearbox, rear axle)
S1 4.2 2+2 Automatic 1966

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Heuer
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#6

Post by Heuer » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:39 pm

If the breather were blocked I would expect the crank pressure to be so high it would blow the crank rear seal. That level of consumption means the oil is going somewhere - very quickly! If it was going into the combustion chambers it would produce lots of blue smoke so either you have big leak or it is, as Christopher suggests, mixing with radiator fluid. Any scum or milky appearance to the coolant?
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

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the doc
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#7

Post by the doc » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:37 am

Curious what the oginal poster found out eventually about this problem

Gary

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rah59
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#8

Post by rah59 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:13 pm

I was of the understanding that for every litre of petrol burnt the internal combustion engine produces a litre of water. The black water is most likely this water contaminated with soot from the exhaust

robin

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#9 huge oil consumption

Post by jag68 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:15 pm

I had the same problem with my '68 many years ago. Had to clean the spark plugs every 200 miles. The car spat out black stuff like crazy. No blue smoke though. Good compression. Turned out that when I got the head off and could see the cylinders the problem was that the cylinders had glazed from improper break in. I could still see the original hatch marks from the honing in the bore through the glaze. The rings and especially the oil control ring simply hadn't seated. The car had 45,000 miles on it at the time. Breaking the glaze with a hone, new rings, and proper break in solved the problem.
1967 E Type coupe
1968 E Type OTS
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Lorenzo
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#10

Post by Lorenzo » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:23 am

Now I have the car at a local workshop, and after having dismounted the engine head they saw it full of oil, due to the fact that a previous owner made some works on the head, installing seal valve not properly, so that the seals were out and someway,moving togheter with the valve movement, "pump" the oil into the combustion chamber.

It's so difficult to adapt the head for new seal valve sterm into my engine head ? An italian jaguar spare parts supplier is telling me that my engine head wasn't designed to use seal valve sterm, and that Jaguar solved this problem on a next version of the engine: is it true ?

Do you have any suggestion about if and/or how about the installation of new goetze rhiag seals valve stem on all inlet and exhaust valves ?
S1 4.2 2+2 Automatic 1966

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rossbraithwaite
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#11

Post by rossbraithwaite » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:53 am

christopher storey wrote: Also, spitting oil ( by which I presume you mean unburnt oil ) from the exhaust is a very unusual symptom, and I wonder whether either your engine is being enormously overfilled with oil - often the result of a bent dipstick -
I think I may have just suffered this problem after having some work done on the engine that included removal of the sump. The dipstick was bent and did not drop into location as it should, it seemed to be clashing with something in the sump. I bent the dipstick back to straight and assume this to be correct as it now drops into location sweetly. I was amazed by how much the oil level increased and now seems to be significantly over-filled.
Is it fair to say the only way to be sure is to drain, measure and refill?
Is it likely to cause any damage to the engine as I have done about 150 miles like this?
'67 S1.5 FHC, manual, maroon with black interior. Originally exported to Arizona but 'repatriated' in '89. Since converted to RHD and triple SUs.

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ChrisC
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#12

Post by ChrisC » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:18 am

Why not simply drain "some" of the oil out? Bit messy when you try to put the plug back in but perfectly do-able and worst case you can pour some of the drained oil back in to bring it to the right level...

I would use new oil though...
1964 FHC 4.2
My Etype restoration progress www.connor.org.uk

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rossbraithwaite
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#13

Post by rossbraithwaite » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:31 am

ChrisC wrote:Why not simply drain "some" of the oil out? Bit messy when you try to put the plug back in but perfectly do-able and worst case you can pour some of the drained oil back in to bring it to the right level...

I would use new oil though...
Thanks Chris. I think I have found the answer elsewhere on here. The dipstick may need calibrating by adding a known quantity of oil to be 100% confident of the level marker. I will do as you suggest and then calibrate at the next oil change.
'67 S1.5 FHC, manual, maroon with black interior. Originally exported to Arizona but 'repatriated' in '89. Since converted to RHD and triple SUs.

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JPatrickJag
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#14 Installing valve stem seals on 68 E-Type

Post by JPatrickJag » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:02 pm

I just discovered your post on the difficulty of installing valve stem seals on a 68 E-Type. Did you successfully install the seals? I just discovered the same problem on my 68. The valve spring seats were too tall preventing the seals from snapping into the groove in the intake valves. I want to use seals but would be nice to know if someone has been successful. The plan is to shorten the center portion of the valve spring seats so seals will fit.
68 E-Type OTS

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#15

Post by tinworm » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:52 pm

Hi , you will need to fit the collars and collets from the later range of engines . Barratts do them amongst others.

regards Barrie
1962 E-type roadster, 1964 E-type fixed head 1995 Ferrari 355 1980 Ferrari 308 1987 V8 90 Landrover 1990 BMW 325 touring 1988 Bedford rascal van

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#16 Re: huge oil consumption

Post by flatfloor 3.8 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:39 pm

jag68 wrote:I had the same problem with my '68 many years ago. Had to clean the spark plugs every 200 miles. The car spat out black stuff like crazy. No blue smoke though. Good compression. Turned out that when I got the head off and could see the cylinders the problem was that the cylinders had glazed from improper break in. I could still see the original hatch marks from the honing in the bore through the glaze. The rings and especially the oil control ring simply hadn't seated. The car had 45,000 miles on it at the time. Breaking the glaze with a hone, new rings, and proper break in solved the problem.
Hi, did you do this with the engine in or out of the car. How do you recognise this GLAZING

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44DHR
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#17

Post by 44DHR » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:58 am

Just picking up on that comment by Barrie, (tinworm), so is it correct that you can fit inlet valve seals on earlier 4.2 E type engines which did not have them originally by changing the valve collars and collets from a later range of 4.2 engines ?

If so, can this be done with the engine in the car by getting each valve to TDC to avoid it dropping into the cylinder as the spring is compressed and the old collar and collets removed to fit the new oil seal, if you can maintain the valve in it's seat to fit the new collar and collets ? Just wondered as this could stop a few cars which smoke on the over-run.

Cheers,

Dave
Dave Rose
1967 Series 1 4.2 FHC

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christopher storey
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#18

Post by christopher storey » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:58 pm

Dave : I should have thought it can, by using the age old trick of feeding a length of rope into the cylinder with the piston a little way down , then bringing it to tdc. The valve then will not drop when pressure is applied to the keeper, and the collets etc can be removed and replaced

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#19

Post by PeterCrespin » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:32 pm

44DHR wrote:Just picking up on that comment by Barrie, (tinworm), so is it correct that you can fit inlet valve seals on earlier 4.2 E type engines which did not have them originally by changing the valve collars and collets from a later range of 4.2 engines ?
No.

Hence the rest of your question about methods doesn't apply.

You can modify smoking 3.8s as well as 4.2s (assuming the smoke is worn guides, but You need to change valve guides and bottom spring seat, as well as the shorter retaining collar and collets. But then fixing worn valves and guides to spec is in itself a fix for top end smoking...

Pete
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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jag68
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#20 huge oil consumption

Post by jag68 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:42 am

To flatfloor: I could see it was glazed because I could still see the original honing cross hatch on the cylinder walls - something that should be worn off at the mileage the engine had run. To deglaze the cylinder walls you need to remove the pistons, which can be done with the engine in the car. You need to remove the head and oil pan. I used a ball hone for the deglazing and a new set of rings.

I really doubt that valve seals or their lack could lead to this kind of oil consumption - after all Jaguar didn't use them for many years. Usually bad valve sealing shows itself on start up when oil has drained down past the valves when the engine is stopped for a period - say overnight, accumulates in the cylinder, then burns as smoke when first fired up in the morning. You can have good compression and bad oil rings. I also thought that the black stuff coming out the exhaust was water that was blackened by carbon, but it was actually oil being pumped out in an atomized state. My engine didn't smoke and the plugs were fouled after a short distance. I suspect too much oil to burn in the cylinders to create much smoke.
1967 E Type coupe
1968 E Type OTS
2007 XKR

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