Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

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#1 Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by mtnjag » Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:08 am

62 E, uprated road cam, ported/flowed/cc'd head, 4.2 valves, 9:1 pistons, HD8s. Stock Air Cleaner setup with a K&N type filter from Moss Mtrs.

I can't keep the Grommet between the air cleaner housing and air intake "snorkel box" in place at high rpm.

All fine cruising but take it up to 4K+ and one side of the grommet gets sucked down into the canister shortcutting the filter and providing direct air flow to the snorkel and on to the carbs.

It happens with the paper filter and the performance filter. The grommet is not perfectly centered on the hole in the air cleaner canister, and it gets sucked down on the side with the least amount of lip on the canister opening. Same side as carbs. The mis-alignment is about 1/8" (3mm). The canister won't move out anymore and I have moved the eng to the left side of the car on the mounts as much as is possible. The canister is perfectly clear with no obstructions. I have tried the grommet in both directions with the same result.
Currently running it with the "cut" lip up. Have adjusted the grommet up and down on the snorkel sleeve.

Are you gluing down the grommet?
Are the repro grommets too small?
Thinking of making a tight collar out of thin gauge alum to fit under the grommet once mounted, not sure if that would work but maybe.

Or are the carbs just sucking too much air for the stock canister to supply and are sucking down the grommet when air is needed??
In which case a better breathing arrangement is needed.

Thoughts?
Layne
Car #876005, 62 OTS

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#2 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by abowie » Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:14 am

I'm not sure why this is happening to you.

I routinely glue the grommet into the top of the canister. I think this would fix your problem.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
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Adelaide, Australia

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#3 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by mtnjag » Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:18 am

So you glue the whole perimeter? Silicon or weatherstrip adhesive?
Didn’t realize that was the standard practice.
Layne
Car #876005, 62 OTS

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#4 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by abowie » Sun Feb 27, 2022 7:56 am

I can't comment on what standard practise is. It's just what I do.

I use cyanoacrylate/"Krazy Glue" to anchor the grommet into the top.

The triangular air inlet is held in by the elasticity of the grommet flange and these pieces become a single unit. This makes removal and replacement much easier.

Cheers.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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#5 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by Heuer » Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:20 am

Using the stock "air silencer' is costing you a 6% drop in power (Jaguar figure) and with your engine setup you would benefit in using an ITG filter, either the one SNGB sell or the push on one detailed in the Upgrades forum. I assume you are using UE needle's with the K&N?
David Jones
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#6 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by mtnjag » Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:00 pm

Using UO needles.
Should I change?
I have been reading the Air Filters posting you did, David, on the ITGs with pics, and the other extended post(not sure on title right now-lost if off my screen) with lots of tech data on your tests with filter and stacks…

I was going to post to the Air Filters subject and ask if they have worked out to be as good an option as the appeared. Thanks for checking in here.
Does the canister mounted ITG Maxogen provide enough air to the filter/engine?
Layne
Car #876005, 62 OTS

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#7 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by mtnjag » Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:31 pm

In reading the Air Filters subject the ITG Maxogen filter that pushes into the snorkel neck would be the
“JC60C (large cone)” version that has the aluminum neck. The J60 has a rubber neck.

Is the JC60/99C the correct filter?

Dimensions for J60c99c are
JC60/99C 99 /102 180 50 163 213 149 In alphabetic order on the image.
Tried to attach an eng dwg image, hope it attaches. 99mm is inside neck dim while 102 is the outside neck dim. Overall height is 213mm.


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Layne
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#8 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by mtnjag » Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:55 am

Just ordered the JC60/93C. Looks like the horn into the Jag air plenum is a little smaller than your's David. The ID of the horn is 96-97mm and the OD of this is 96mm so it should be perfect, maybe a little clearancing maybe.
Anxious to try it out.
Layne
Car #876005, 62 OTS

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#9 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by mtnjag » Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:54 am

Completed my install of the ITG filter. Slight shimming out of the filter neck with aluminum tape. Next size up would have required the plenum neck to be sanded away as the OD on the neck is only 102mm and the 99 has an OD of 102mm leaving nothing. This is an early plenum that is two piece with the flared neck that slips into the plenum sleeve, so I guess the neck is smaller than the later plenums. Anyway that's how it is and the J60/93C with it's 96mm OD worked well. Used a stainless hose clamp around the plenum neck to provide some strength for the screws and put 3 screws through to lock the filter in place. Very straight forward.
Thanks for all the research and recommendations.

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Layne
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#10 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by Heuer » Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:50 am

Well done Layne and thanks for the follow up. You will need UE needles or the car will run lean because of the increased air flow.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB
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#11 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by Allrand » Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:03 pm

What causes the restricted airflow in the stanard filter, is it the filter material/construction, or the long narrow inlet tubes?
Randall Botha
'64 3.8 fhc & '51 Mk 7

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#12 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by rswaffie » Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:15 pm

I added the Mangoletsi filter to my build along with their throttle kit.

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The needles needed changing as David notes to UE, but I had this done via a rolling-road tuning session. Well worth the few hundred quid as they will get everything set up correctly.
Richard

Previous owner and restorer of a S1 3.8 FHC Opalescent Golden Sand with Tan Trim 889504 (now sold and headed for Athens)

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#13 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by mtnjag » Sat Mar 05, 2022 1:46 pm

I currently have UO needles installed by the engine builder.
I think these are a richer needle than the UE. Is that right?
Want to make sure of where I am.

Thanks.
Layne
Car #876005, 62 OTS

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#14 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by Heuer » Sat Mar 05, 2022 1:48 pm

Allrand wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:03 pm
What causes the restricted airflow in the stanard filter, is it the filter material/construction, or the long narrow inlet tubes?
Combination of both although the two inlet tubes cause most of the restriction. Jaguar always refer to the filter housing as an 'air silencer so it was designed with comfort in mind rather than performance.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB
1997 Porsche 911 Guards Red

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#15 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by Heuer » Sat Mar 05, 2022 1:50 pm

mtnjag wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 1:46 pm
I currently have UO needles installed by the engine builder.
I think these are a richer needle than the UE. Is that right?
Want to make sure of where I am.
Yes, UO are richer and are what I use in my OTS which has a high performance engine build. I suggest you stay with them.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB
1997 Porsche 911 Guards Red

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#16 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by mtnjag » Sat Mar 05, 2022 1:57 pm

Thanks, yes thought so.
This engs head is ported/flowed/cc’d big valves with performace street cams ground by John Delong. 9:1 pistons so it’s a bit hotted up.
The builder tuned it on a dyno but not in the car and settled on the UO.
Hope they work well with this cleaner.
Any comments welcome and thanks.
Layne
Car #876005, 62 OTS

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#17 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by Allrand » Sat Mar 05, 2022 2:11 pm

Combination of both although the two inlet tubes cause) as an 'air silencer so it was designed with comfort in mind rather than performance.
Thanks Dave, so modifying the canister with larger diameter inlet tubes should make a meaningful improvement. Has anyone tried this?
Randall Botha
'64 3.8 fhc & '51 Mk 7

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#18 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by mtnjag » Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:02 am

Update-test drive went very well. Runs great, maybe slightly louder but good, seems to start faster-like immediately and shuts down cleanly with smooth acceleration. Maybe it's psychological but jeeze, seems to run better!

Thanks again.
Layne
Car #876005, 62 OTS

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#19 Re: Air Cleaner Grommet Sucks into filter canister

Post by Heuer » Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:50 am

Allrand wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 2:11 pm
Thanks Dave, so modifying the canister with larger diameter inlet tubes should make a meaningful improvement. Has anyone tried this?
Well this is always an option! (don't try it!)

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