Where to purchase front frames Series II?

[Hugo]

Any advice, please, on where to purchase new engine frames? My Series II is with the local welder and panel-beater for him to get the bonnet to shut properly, but the job is going backwards at high speed! I thought that now is the time to paint the engine frames, while the bonnet is off (engine & gearbox already out), also I want to treat and paint the seams where the wings / fenders join the centre bonnet, before it goes back on. I have stripped all the ancilliaries off the frames ready for painting, at which point my panel-beater friend has just helpfully pointed out that the whole frame is cock-eyed. The left side of the picture frame is lower than the right, and as far as I can tell, the right-hand side frame points uphill relative to the left. Not by much, and you'd never notice if it was all back together. There are some strange dings on the inside of the left hand rail whch look to me like the manifold has gone into it at some stage. The left front wing / fender has been replaced, which is why the bonnet didn't fit very well.
My friend's brother, who does the heavy welding at their blacksmith's shop, suggested putting a piece of wood on the right front corner and walloping it with a 14 lb sledge hammer. He reckons that would knock it back into shape. I don't, but we're not going to put it to the test!
I am very new to E Types so don't know all the suppliers. I have heard of Uryk, and he seems to have a good reputation. There are other suppliers of frames at a much lower price. The question, without asking anybody to commit libel, is whom to avoid and why? Libellous comments off-list to Hugo@aruncoaches.co.uk !

[neil4444]

Hutsons sell Uryk's frames. They fit. I'll say no more

[chrisfell]

Bent frames? I'd check the tub as well before committing to anything at all.

[abowie]

Currently David Manners have the best pricing.
I have used several sets of these frames, made by Robeys. They all fitted just fine.

[Nickleback]

Yes, that was my first thought, are you sure it is the frames rather than the tub ?, (It could also be the picture frame is bent, mine was and the frames were good ?), you need to check first before spending ?

[288gto]

Both myself and AltyIan on here bought from Uryk (now via Hutsons) and fitted perfectly.

Simon

[Hugo]

Yes, that was my first thought, are you sure it is the frames rather than the tub ?, (It could also be the picture frame is bent, mine was and the frames were good ?), you need to check first before spending ?

That's a good point - how would I go about checking that? All I can see is that the picture frame is a bit down on one side, and the front-to-back frames seem to be a bit out, causing the picture frame to be cock-eyed - I'll take a better look tomorrow. But how would I check whether is the frames or the tub that is out?

[christopher storey]

There is a diagram in the workshop manual ( included in the documentation in the knowledge base on this site ) which gives all the measurements you need to check. It is not a 5 minute job

I suggest also that you speak with Andy Rayner at Hutsons , who build/rebuild the shells, and also sell Uryk's frames, who will give you good advice as to what to do in this situation , 01274 669052

[dal2.0litrefrogeye]

Hi . Get the car bubble level and then measure to all the frame pickup up points on the tub . And /or hire your self a laser level and set the laser and car bubble straight and see if the pick up points line up with the opposed pick up point on on each side ...... hope that made sence ish

[Hugo]

I spent so much time staring at spirit levels I went cross-eyed. (What is the American for 'spirit-level? Anybody know?). It turns out almost all the irregularity is in the front frame, but I'm hanged if I can find out where it is. I don't care any more, as I just drilled the holes out a bit to give myself some wiggle room. The main frames are maybe a couple of mm out, most of which can be attributed to the fact that the front plates aren't brazed in exactly the same position each side. So the important bits are near enough ok. I've spent the last few weeks rubbing those damn frames down ready for painting. There's job for masochists. You keep finding bits you've missed, even when you think you've done it all. To cheer myself up I've painted the front frame & assembled as much as I can to it, such as steering rack, anti-roll bar etc. It has gone from the colour of cowsh!t (Sable, I think they euphemistically called it) to brilliant bright red (I use red tinter - as pure and strong a red as you can get). Yes, I know, mid-life crisis & all that.

[Mark Gordon]

I spent so much time staring at spirit levels I went cross-eyed. (What is the American for 'spirit-level? Anybody know?).

Spirit or bubble level. Occasionally, we do speak the same language.

[Hugo]

Occasionally being the operative word. I asked a friend in Florida for a spirit level & he didn't know what I was talking about. Americans drive on the pavement, whereas in Britain that's the bit you walk on. It's all very confusing.

[PeterCrespin]

Fileing out the holes was not a good idea. I am also perfectly sure the flange plates were straight and true when your car left the factory.

It sounds like the car has been cut 'n shut. You cannot treat it like a simple, standard rebuild.
If you don't do it right you could end up withva dangerous car that will swap ends the first time you brake hard on a damp road, or worse.

You start with a dead level floor, or you make a level heavy framework to rest the tub on, which extends forward to provide datum points for assembling true.

[Hugo]

Yes, I've done that. Spent a lot of time studying it from every angle & putting spirit levvelas all over the place to see what was going on. I think it's had a ding on the left front, in fact I can see it has, as that wing has been replaced, and there are three little marks on the inboard of the top left frame rail, which I guess is where the exhaust manifold has gone into it.
When I first saw the discrepancy I was quite resigned to replacing the whole frame set (which is why I originally posted the question), but further study revealed that the picture frame was only a couple of mm out - and that is mostly due to the fact that the flanges on the front of the main frames aren't quite brazed in the same position vis-a-vis the frame tubes. The right flanges are a bit higher than the left. It's not enough to bother me, especially since it's been like that since new I should imagine. I could probably replace the whole lot and end up with a similar discrepancy.
But there is a much greater error by the time you get to the bonnet mountings, and that error is all contained in the bonnet frame forward of the picture frame.
In order to get the picture frame dead level I opened up the holes in the flanges, and by similarly opening up the holes in the bonnet frame I am probably less than 1/4" out at the hinges now, although it's a long time since I measured it.
I could I suppose replace the bonnet frame, but as it does nothing but hold the bonnet on I'm sure I'll be all right.
If we were talking about suspension mountings I might view things differently.
I doubt whether anybody has even attempted a 'cut & shut' on an E Type frame - sounds like more work than replacing the whole lot - certainly not on mine!

[PeterCrespin]

Yeah, cut 'n shut was meant in the generic bodge sense, rather than a literal description in the sense one hears of one car being welded up out of two, or similar. If you are capable of measuring chassis dimensions to the nearest couple of millimeters you should be fine Hugo.

[christopher storey]

The bonnet frame is the cheapest part of the whole setup, and if you are sure it is grossly misshaped, I would replace it

[Steve Marshall]

Hugo

I haven't checked the technical specs, but a for a volume manufacturer +/-2mm would be a an ambitiously tight tolerance for a long hearth brazed frame bolted up to a monocoque, having no shimming adjustments as I recall. 1mm thicker paint on one part of the bulkhead would throw it 3mm out at the front.

I am a bit surprised you can find a concrete floor flat enough to get repeatable measurements of this accuracy.

For all practical purposes yours is perfect - only 1 thousandth of the wheelbase out, so I suggest you just throw away the old picture frame and bonnet mount. If you haven't upgraded to the adjustable reaction plate, normal tolerances in other components will surely have a greater effect than production tolerances in the frames.

We just call them 'bubbles' for short.


Steve Marshall (FIMechE)

[Hugo]

That's what I thought too - I'm not worried about it now that I've investigated it further. My concrete floor is pretty flat as it's in a new building, but it's not quite level. What I did was put the back of the car on stands then levelled it with shims. Then I used a spirit level at various points working towards the front of the car. You could see by eye that the top of the picture frame didn't line up with the body-shell - I can't remember what we lined it up with - I think we had another spirit-level across the back of the front frames, so we just kept checking the levels at vrious points on the front frames till we concluded that it was within a couple of mm at the front of the side frames. But the flange on the top front of the side frames (that the picture frame bolts to) were positioned slightly differently from one side to the other. That added another couple of mm. And then the bonnet frame right at the front was out within itself by a few more mm. If I'd been lucky these might have cancelled out, but they were all cumulative!
Anyway, I've decided to use the existing bonnet frame and I just enlarged the mounting holes a bit. So far it's the only bit of the car I have painted! I'm almost ready to paint the front frames and firewall, then I can start sticking bits back on there. What a tedious job though! (rubbing down the framework)
Adjustable reaction plate is on my shopping list.