123 and tachometer

Talk about the E-Type Series 2

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AnD3rew
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Australia

#1 123 and tachometer

Post by AnD3rew » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:13 pm

I am considering a 123 distributor replacement in order to try and solve my ongoing missing and tune problems. However I don’t want to have to send my tacho overseas to be rebuilt to solve the issues the 123 can cause. Som have said theirs hasn’t been effected is there any way to predict whether it will or not and is there any easy solution short of rebuilding the tacho?
Sydney Australia

Current
Red Series 2 2+2 XKE
Italian Racing Red F-Type S
Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6

Previous of interest
Jaguar XJ6 Sovereign series 3
MGA 1959

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phil.dobson@mac.com
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#2 Re: 123 and tachometer

Post by phil.dobson@mac.com » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:09 am

Can you explain what diagnostics have lead you to believe its a distributor problem?

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cactusman
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#3 Re: 123 and tachometer

Post by cactusman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:53 am

Good question Phil....the 123 has not always been a success for others who have fitted it I believe....for some it is fine but for others just a heap more problems. And if it fails out on the road you are stuffed. I suspect the simple answer to your question Andrew is there is no way to know...your tachometer might be fine or it might not...the only way to find out is to fit a 123 system.

Personally I would go with the electronic points replacement...e..g Pertonix module. Much cheaper and easy to revert to points if you need to.....mine has one....been perfect for five years...
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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Herzeg
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#4 Re: 123 and tachometer

Post by Herzeg » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:28 am

Julian

I am glad your Pertronix works fine. Mine managed to burn out a coil. Having replaced it I still had a misfire and finally Angus traced it to the condensor which maybe was also damaged by the ignition. The first problem was an inability to rev over 3000rpm, raised to 4000 with a second coil. Finally an episode of driving up the road with sparks coming out of the exhaust, backfiring and shaking.

My distributor was rebuilt by the dizzy doctor but all my problems related to the Pertronix. Ask Angus, I'm not the only one having problems and maybe they had a dodgy batch?

Going back to the original post, I would recommend taking to a rolling road. I did it with mine and it allowed me to eliminate the carbs as a problem and showed specifically where it was going wrong. Money well spent, after spending a lot on "new" technology and then reverting to original. :banghead:

John
1969 S2 OTS

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cactusman
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#5 Re: 123 and tachometer

Post by cactusman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:31 pm

O dear....not sure mine is actually Pertonix. Memory fails me......there are several makes advertised...touch wood mine works a dream...
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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christopher storey
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#6 Re: 123 and tachometer

Post by christopher storey » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:44 pm

If you look back over my posts on this subject over the years, you will see that I have an axe to grind ! Sadly, my experience of electronic ignition on various classics - mostly owned by other people although I had a complete failure on my Daimler V8 - has been pretty awful , with failure after failure stranding people unless they had the means with them of reverting to points . The strange thing is that modern cars with ostensibly similar systems are so reliable, but.... and it is a big but... it is clear that with moderns the whole electrical system is designed to be compatible with electronic ignition, so that coils, capacitors etc do not get fried . It may be also that the charging systems of moderns are such that voltage spikes etc which can play havoc with electronics are avoided. For whatever reason, my advice is that you are far better off sticking with points, coil and condenser, and that if you absolutely must fit electronics, make sure that you always have the means with you to go back to conventional ignition at the roadside

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AnD3rew
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#7 Re: 123 and tachometer

Post by AnD3rew » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:01 pm

Thanks all.

I might reconsider. I have been having endless problems with missing now to the point that it is almost undrivable. The car already has a Pertronix system. I have replaced every other ignition component and after being tuned and timed it runs week for a week or so and then reverts to problems. Could be carbs still as I have been trying to eliminate ignition first, but it’s unlikey to be carbs when fixing ignition and timing stuff seems to make it go ok for a while. I guess I could replace the Pertronix with points and see how it goes,but I was suspecting the distributor as being worn and losing the timing.

I guess I can just try replacing the distributor with a standard one.
Sydney Australia

Current
Red Series 2 2+2 XKE
Italian Racing Red F-Type S
Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6

Previous of interest
Jaguar XJ6 Sovereign series 3
MGA 1959

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mark10337
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#8 Re: 123 and tachometer

Post by mark10337 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:48 pm

Have you checked inside the distributor where the weights are? Is that all cleaned out and no muck or gunk. That did cause a very hard to trace misfire on mine a while back.
-Mark

1969 Series 2 OTS, Regency Red
'Life's to short to drive a boring car'

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AshM
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#9 Re: 123 and tachometer

Post by AshM » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:58 pm

Respecting it is a topic that gets a variety of responses and views all I can say is I put a 123 into my S2 last winter and have had hundreds of trouble free miles since. Edinburgh to Windsor last year without missing a beat.

The car noticeably starts more easily, especially when hot.

But I know if it does ever stop then it's a call to the AA... But I am a fan.

cheers
Ash

PS Tach was fine - no issues at all.
Series 2 FHC 1970
1R 20607

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christopher storey
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#10 Re: 123 and tachometer

Post by christopher storey » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:27 pm

Just referring back to the misfire problem, one of the most elusive causes of this sort of defect is poor earthing. It is sometimes worthwhile even providing a second earth cable between engine and "chassis", and also making absolutely sure that there is nothing insulating the distributor from the engine

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Herzeg
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#11 Re: 123 and tachometer

Post by Herzeg » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:29 pm

christopher storey wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:44 pm
The strange thing is that modern cars with ostensibly similar systems are so reliable, but.... and it is a big but... it is clear that with moderns the whole electrical system is designed to be compatible with electronic ignition, so that coils, capacitors etc do not get fried . It may be also that the charging systems of moderns are such that voltage spikes etc which can play havoc with electronics are avoided.
I think Christopher that you have hit the heart of the matter. Modern cars are just ... different. If I leave the E for three weeks it sets off the tracker when I try to start it as the battery is so low. If I leave my 100,000 mile seven year old BMW for three weeks it says hello then starts. I believe you are playing with dark forces when you stick electronics in an E-type, I even swapped my DAB radio set up for a non-wired 60's Radiomobile to keep the spirits happy. That or Angus who accused me of a failure of taste :questionmarks:

John
1969 S2 OTS

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Mark Gordon
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#12 Re: 123 and tachometer

Post by Mark Gordon » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:54 pm

You really have nothing to lose by going back to conventional points, setting them up properly and seeing how they do. I really doubt that your problem of missing has anything to do with your Pertronix or any other electronic system. Unlike points, electronic ignition either works or it doesn't. If it fails, it's like someone pulled the HT leads off of your dizzy. My guess is that your distributor is worn and needs an overhaul. In GB, the Distributor Doctor seems to be the go to man. We've had several threads on this topic and polar opposite opinions of the value and reliability of electronic vs points/condenser ignition systems. Christopher, as he admits, has generally had nothing but negative experiences with electronics, the 123 in particular. I, on the other hand, have had nothing but positive experiences with initially Pertronix and lately the 123 units. My complaint with points is that they can be a bear to start in cold or particularly cold, damp weather. Plus, they inevitably deteriorate over time although they can be rectified roadside if they act up. As I said earlier, electronics either work perfectly or they don't work at all. I've had my 123 for over 4 years; it's never failed me and the car starts instantly in all weather even after sitting for a week or more. Different strokes for different folks. If you go back to points as a test and you still have the problem, send the dizzy of to Dist. Doc or put in a 123.
Mark

67 OTS 1E14988, 2002 VDP

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cactusman
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#13 Re: 123 and tachometer

Post by cactusman » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:51 pm

Well I ran my mgb on points for two years. Got through at least two sets and broke down st 6 am in Leighton Buzzard when the condenser went short circuit. I then fitted a lumenition system that has never missed so much as a single spark in 25 years. I would agree that earthing is extra important but well designed and correctly installed, an electronic system should perform for years and there is nothing to physically wear out...which is why all modern cars use electronic systems and not points...
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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