What sort of gap?

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mach2andy
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#1 What sort of gap?

Post by mach2andy » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:15 pm

I spent some time last week fitting and adjusting my doors, and trial fitting the window frames. I'm going to have another go in the next couple of days with some weight in the doors to simulate the missing components. I'm also going to trial fit the quarter lights to see what sort of gap there is between the Q/L and the rear edge of the door frame. But what sort of gap should I be looking to achieve? And what sort of gap should there be between the window frame, and the door aperture? I've seen a figure of 7mm mentioned somewhere? Or am I just aiming to adjust the window frame so that the gap is just equal all the way round? I'm not leaving the frames in the doors whilst the shell is painted. I just want to make sure that if there is any door structure fettling needed, it's done before paint is applied.
Thanks in advance
Andy
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Andy Chalmers [in Hove]
1970 S2 FHC in pieces
1965 SB Corvette Ragtop

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johnetype
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#2 Re: What sort of gap?

Post by johnetype » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:02 pm

Firstly you are looking for evenness in the gaps rather than absolutes. I'd suggest that uneven, non parallel gaps look more out of place than a specific size.
Whilst I can't give you a figure, the gap between the window frame and the A post and roof needs to be large enough to let the seal do it's job. Likewise the gap between the rear of the door window frame and the front of the rear quarter-light frame needs to be large enough and ideally parallel so the two rubber seals have enough room to overlap and pass each other.
Also the edges in the crease in the door skin near the top need to match the associated crease in the adjacent body panels.
John

1969 Series 2 FHC

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#3 Re: What sort of gap?

Post by mach2andy » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:35 pm

Hi John
Thanks for taking the trouble to reply. One thing that I've realised today is that the seal that runs up the rear of the window frame is the same section as the seal that runs up the Q/L hinge pillar. Previously I'd thought that the seal that runs around the outside of the window frame was the same all the way around, and I couldn't really see how the 2 were going to mate up, and hence the question about the gap at the rear of the frame. I've also managed to get the O/S door to fit much better by moving it forward by slightly enlarging the hinge screw holes in the door. None of the door or window seals were fitted to my car when I originally stripped it, so I'm feeling my way around a bit.
Andy.
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1970 S2 FHC in pieces
1965 SB Corvette Ragtop

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johnetype
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#4 Re: What sort of gap?

Post by johnetype » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:24 pm

Andy, I can see your photos today which I couldn't before. From those I'd suggest looking at bringing the driver's door up a bit so it matches the bodywork front and rear (you can drop the door frame to compensate).
Secondly, while you've got a nice parallel gap now, fit the rear quarter glass and check that with the quarter light frame in the position you want, the rear of the quarter light glass can still fit into the bodywork recess.
Also be sure to fit the shims as appropriate to the top and bottom of the quarter light frame so it's under no tension with the body. One side of my car wasn't shimmed properly so the bottom fixing had been stressed and fractured and I had to solder it back together.
John

1969 Series 2 FHC

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265bhp
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#5 Re: What sort of gap?

Post by 265bhp » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:24 am

Hi Andy

Are you able to adjust the metalwork at this stage...or is it too late...?...the rear upper crease and the top of the door panel should both line up with the same features of the front of the rear wing...whilst the crease is a fix, the top of the door skin can be stretched and eased a little and can also have lead added to it...it makes a huge difference to the junction if at all possible

All the best
Jonathan
1963 3.8 FHC in slow restoration mode

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abowie
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#6 Re: What sort of gap?

Post by abowie » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:01 am

5 to 6 mm.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
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#7 Re: What sort of gap?

Post by mach2andy » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:47 am

Thanks everyone for taking the trouble to reply. Fortunately, we're not too far down the road to alter anything. The shell was initially soda blasted which revealed where lead was added during production including the top corner of the O/S B post [where the bottom of the Q/L pillar attaches] which may give us some room for adjustment there, but I think that more lead loading may be required. Also, thanks for the tip about the Q/L shims. There were none present when the car was stripped but I know that this doesn't necessarily mean that there were never any present.
ATB
Andy
Andy Chalmers [in Hove]
1970 S2 FHC in pieces
1965 SB Corvette Ragtop

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MarekH
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#8 Re: What sort of gap?

Post by MarekH » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:52 pm

Dear Andy,

There are two places on these cars which set the minimum achievable gap when considering how small you can make the gap. Both of these are on doors over curved surfaces and the gap decreases as the doors open against the bodywork.

For your car, a coupe, the minimum gap you can achieve is that which is set at the front edge of the door. If you adjust this down too far, the door will foul the bulkhead as it opens as the leading edge is over a curved surface. This is because the horizontal displacement from the hinge is unequal at the top of the door by comparison with that at the widest extremity of the car (which is closer to the hinge). Once you adjust the door position to match the lines of the bodywork, there will be a distance that the door cannot be mounted further forward without then clipping the bodywork as the door opens. You can then, if you so wish, adjust all of the other panel gaps down to that level, but no further. Consider 4mm to be a minimum gap for the leading edge door.

For people with an OTS, the same happens with the leading edge of the boot lid. As the boot lid springs up, the gap midway between the two hinges on the leading edge diminishes. Apply the same logic mutatis mundatis, with 3mm for the boot lid.

To set these gaps to their minimum, tape a sheet of paper over the bodywork at those leading edges so that you can open the doors or boot lid without fouling. The paper thickness mimics paint thickness. Do remember that the various seals will alter how the openings sit (and rebound) against the bodywork.

Whilst it is intuitively desirable to achieve equal gaps everywhere, you can't see all of the gaps from any one angle, so very small variations over a curved surface aren't always as visible as you think.

kind regards
Marek

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#9 Re: What sort of gap?

Post by paulsco » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:47 pm

I think that there are some anomalies with whether the top of the door should line up with the top of the B post.

My doors which I can confirm were original by the many layers of paint back to the primer, are slightly lower than the B post. I would upload an image but I can't get Postimage to work for me:-(
The new skins are the same; slightly lower.
A quick search on the internet shows many E's including cars that haven’t been restored like this.

Of course there are also cars with the door skin the same height??

Paul
65 Series 1 FHC, 68 Jaguar 340

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#10 Re: What sort of gap?

Post by mach2andy » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:48 am

Thanks again for your replies.
Paul, perhaps take a few shots with your phone and send them to me. I'm on WhatsAp or just a plain text message? That would be much appreciated.

Someone once said " If you look for perfection, you'll never be content".

I'm trying to make the best job I can of this project, but bearing the above in mind all the time.
ATB
Andy
07780 666123

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1970 S2 FHC in pieces
1965 SB Corvette Ragtop

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#11 Re: What sort of gap?

Post by paulsco » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:55 pm

Hi Andy,

I have now rebuilt the doors and shell so any pictures I take now will only show how I have rebuilt it.

These are the pictures I spoke off. It is clear I think, that my car at least left the factory like this; well not quite in this condition :-)


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Paul
65 Series 1 FHC, 68 Jaguar 340

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