Series 2 aesthetics

Talk about the E-Type Series 2

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skodajag
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#1 Series 2 aesthetics

Post by skodajag » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:10 pm

The only thing I really dislike about the styling of the Series 2 is the rear light/numberplate arrangement. It's ugly. Reminds me of a trailer board. I'm wondering if anyone has attempted some discreet modifications of the rear end. I'd also like to hear of anyone's experience with Stefan Wahl's headlight cover kit. With thanks in advance, JD

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Heuer
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#2

Post by Heuer » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:26 pm

Pete Crespin has converted the rear of his S2 to eliminate the splayed exhaust pipe's, the alloy panel, square number plate and improved the rear lights:

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David Jones
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christopher storey
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#3

Post by christopher storey » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:02 pm

Yes, and I have done the same as peter, except that I retained the alloy backing panel on which the number plate is mounted. The key is elimination of the square number plate , which is the really ugly feature. Once you do this, you no longer need the ram's horn exhausts

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andy303
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#4

Post by andy303 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:28 am

I certainly like the way Peter's car looks. IIRC one has to use the rear light assemblies from a Lotus Elan, or fab your own to incorporate the reverse lamps. Why not use the entire reverse lamp and housing from a S1? Is the curvature of the rear valence different?
Andy Blackley
Chardon, Ohio
69 S2 2+2 http://www.xkedata.com/cars/detail/?car=1R41606
Fear God and Dreadnought

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#5

Post by Heuer » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:18 am

Yes Andy, the rear units with included reversing lights are off a Lotus Elan +2. Seems Mr Chapman robbed the Jaguar parts bin for the lights and, typically, thought "I can make this better ............. and lighter!". http://www.mickmillerlotus.com/parts-lighting.html
David Jones
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MarkE
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#6

Post by MarkE » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:30 am

I hadn?t seen the rear of the S2 (and 3) as a trailer board before JD, but I see what you mean!

Here?s a rear shot of my pair before they were re-Anglicised, and you can see that the rear bumper of the S2/3 occupies the space previously taken by the S1 rear light?so that?s not an option really, Andy.

Maybe Jaguar had the same feeling about the rear end of the S2, which is why they put the delicate and tasteful giant chrome fantail exhaust on the S3 !!

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skodajag
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#7

Post by skodajag » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:39 pm

"the rear bumper of the S2/3 occupies the space previously taken by the S1 rear light?so that?s not an option really, Andy."

Yes, but would it be possible to put those delicate series 1 lights in the place of the original obese series 2 lights? I guess they wouldn't be ideally visible down there beneath the bumper, but, to (mis)appropriate Oscar Wilde: "In matters of grave importance style, not safety, is the vital thing"...JD

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#8

Post by Heuer » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:28 pm

Anything is possible but you start getting into a lot of bodywork fitting the S1 rear lights and such a change is not going to be easily reversible. The changes Pete did to his car make it look a lot better and the work/cost is considerably less.

I think MarekH has made a number of changes in these areas to his car - he can explain the difficulties.
David Jones
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#9

Post by MarkE » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:42 pm

Well, as we?re talking aesthetics, just study the S1 rear light unit, how it mirrors and complements the rear quarter bumper, and curves both horizontally and vertically with the bodywork. The back of the S2/3 is pretty well flat, and the bumper a single continuous piece. I would guess that the S1 rear light would look very odd next to that.

I?m no artist or designer, but I?m sure that the guys at Jaguar were. Amongst the criteria they had to work with was the requirement for the bumper to be a little higher. I?m sure that if they could have saved a few bob and have been able to use the S1 rear light so that it looked right?.they would have.

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#10

Post by PeterCrespin » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:25 pm

MarkE wrote:I?m no artist or designer, but I?m sure that the guys at Jaguar were. Amongst the criteria they had to work with was the requirement for the bumper to be a little higher. I?m sure that if they could have saved a few bob and have been able to use the S1 rear light so that it looked right?.they would have.
There will have been criteria about minimum light size as well - maybe not only for the USA. I have to say there is at least a small compensation in driving an S2/3 on a foggy day or even at night in rain, knowing you are less likely to be rear-ended due to the much bigger rear lamps.

Anything is possible and if someone was desperate they could do major surgery at the back and convert an S2 to S1 spec. The S3 would be much harder as the lower boot section is far deeper and the tank larger, albeit the lights are blended in more neatly as a result, and look less like an afterthought.
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 79 S2 XJ12L; 97 XJ6L

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#11

Post by andy303 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:59 pm

Allow me to clarify my question: I was asking about using the single reverse lamp as found on the S1 cars (and clearly shown in the photo above) located just over the twin exhaust pipes to eliminate the two MGB style reverse lamps hanging under the bumper of the S2 cars. This would obviate the need to change over to the Lotus Elan light assemblies.

While I won't argue that the bigger S2 tail lights are an aesthetic triumph compared to the earlier ones, their size does provide better visibility to drivers following.[/i]
Andy Blackley
Chardon, Ohio
69 S2 2+2 http://www.xkedata.com/cars/detail/?car=1R41606
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#12

Post by Heuer » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:12 pm

Andy

You can modify the original Jaguar rear lights to incorporate the reversing lights - I think Pete did that :?: I am sure I have seen some imstructions on what is involved somewhere. You could indeed use the S1 reverse light :idea: and place it between the exhaust tips. Certainly cheaper (?75 at SNG) than buying new Elan+2 units (you would be hard pushed to find good originals!).
David Jones
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#13

Post by PeterCrespin » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:58 pm

You can't use the S1 reversing light on an S2 or S3 without significant mods to the boot floor panel to match the S1 panel.

I suppose it could be bodged by just cutting a hole and covering it inside with a patch of fibreglass or filler, or you could use the chrome mount and the glass lens but fit a totally different LED light source that didn't protrude into the floor panel, but that wouldn't be exactly a five minute job either...

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#14

Post by Heuer » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:09 am

Is the S2 under panel that different in profile from the S1? I thought you could offer up the chrome housing and it would require only three small holes? Two for the retaining screws and one for the electrical connection; type of bulb would be immaterial:

Image

Never done it so bow to your knowledge on this Pete.

Incidentally this is what Marek has done with his front sidelights (more details on Jag-Lovers):

Image

Also looks like he is going to fit the Wahlsinn headlight covers.
David Jones
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#15

Post by PeterCrespin » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:19 am

The S1 underfloor has a separate inverted bulge welded into the panel (from memory, it may just be pressed into the panel). It also feeds the wire along one of the boot floor ribs which are slightly different IIRC. I'm 3500 miles away from the car so others will need to check.

Anyhow, when doing my car I considered using the new S1 reversing light assembly I had left over from my 2+2. It was my first choice ahead of the Lotus lights but I gave up on it. Others may be more bold. The bodywork metal is pristine and I wasn't about to got cutting and banging to make the S1 reversing light fit.

I must say the concept of hanging it off several spacers didn't occur to me but since the whole exercise is dictated by aesthetics it would be ruled out for that reason alone. Flush or nothing for me. The lamp body and bulbholder preclude it being flush so it is going on the FHC which, as these things sometimes turn out, is missing its reversing lamp. :-)
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 79 S2 XJ12L; 97 XJ6L

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Smeg999
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#16

Post by Smeg999 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:26 pm

I had asked the same question on JL in early April, so I am glad I have now come across this thread.
Ian
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#17

Post by 00series » Tue May 22, 2012 8:34 am

I agree - The S2 rear lights look like something fitted to a caravan & i do feel that they compromise the look of the car.
When i first joined this site a couple of years ago there was a french S2 E-type being converted to complete S1 rear end.
Would anybody know if the car was ever finished & what do you think the cost would be of a similar conversion?
Thanks, bert

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Heuer
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#18

Post by Heuer » Tue May 22, 2012 10:41 am

00series wrote:I agree - The S2 rear lights look like something fitted to a caravan
:shock: :shock: :shock:
They seem to be perfectly designed for the much more diminutive Elan:

Image

Maybe Ron Hickman was a better designer than Sayer or Lyons at the end of the day.
David Jones
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Peter Harrison
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#19

Post by Peter Harrison » Tue May 22, 2012 10:51 am

I have followed the previous posts and tend to agree with most of the comments. Here are some additional reflections from me:
the reversing lights don?t add to the car?s appearance and are not actually that useful so I have simply removed them. The current cost of installing a pair of Elan light clusters is about ?450 and so I chose not to do this.
Without the reversing lights, the large square plate can be replaced with an oblong plate. I chose the ?Morris Minor? option from Jepson & Co.
I think that the rear now looks much neater without diverging from the original Jaguar concept and design.
In order for other series two-ers to consider this option, I will attempt to paste a ?before and after? shot.

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frogeater
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#20

Post by frogeater » Tue May 22, 2012 11:17 am

Hello
(I discover the topic)
I think I'm the french guy, you mentionned Bert.
The car is not finished yet (because the mecanics wasn't done the last months and so the body is waiting. I've just found a 3,07 diff yesterday in England) I hope she will be finished in june 2013!
http://www.etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1367


I would be curious to see the option of Peter Crespin, without the central part of the rear bumper?
To my mind, and after long hours of thinking and looking at books, it became obvious that I need the rear front of a s?ries 1 instead of some arrangements (even if, my way wasn't reversible, and certainly a very bad solution, financially speaking).
I can't say a total amount for that, because I didn't do it (and I don't want to do it :) ) but you have to add cost of the parts (body, bumpers and lights, exhausts) and body work (my coach builder didn't detail hours for floors sill rear body and fitting of the bonnet). I can't councel you that solution. :wink: (even if, I don't regret it at all for me)
A point to confirm: it seems that the serie 2 fhc has a different rear upper shape and for the fitting of the rear fhc serie 1 light (i normally didn't make a confusion with the ots one) they had to use some lead to adapt the lights.

Lesson 1: Never buy a serie 2 if you prefer the serie 1.
Lesson 2: Prefer a restored or an old restoration car (unless you do the work by yourself).
Emmanuel.

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