Series 2 aesthetics

Talk about the E-Type Series 2

288gto
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#121 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by 288gto » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:52 pm

That would be great Steve. I'd be happy with one from a bit further away. A bit late to de seam mine now though. However, you've got me thinking what a bit more delicate centre bumper section would look like, similar to the front.

Simon
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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1954Etype
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#122 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by 1954Etype » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:39 pm

Very good Steve. :bigrin:
Angus 65 OTS 1E11497. 67 FHC 1E33656

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Steve Marshall
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#123 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by Steve Marshall » Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:10 pm

Here's more of a 3/4 angle. Still a bit of a work in progress.

I am seriously considering the MGB rear cluster option, if it can be done without marmalising the body.

Note the bumper rubbers fitted correctly (not by me). The big fat ones you sometimes see on S2s are just upside down apparently.

Steve

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Steve Marshall
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#124 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by Steve Marshall » Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:12 pm

Simon

You could always go with the mini solution - a chrome or body colour strip simply pushed on over the seam.

Steve
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288gto
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#125 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by 288gto » Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:55 pm

Steve, I really like what you have done there. Thanks for the extra pic. I'm assuming the bumpers are still S2 as no notch in the top for the lights but with S1 or re worked over riders?

Jeff, I have to agree the lights are the main problem. To think that someone at Jaguar back in 67/68 actually offered up a Lucas L807 to the back end of an E type and said " That looks great"!!! Medication or drugs I suspect, that or Lucas had a job lot going cheap.

Simon
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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christopher storey
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#126 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by christopher storey » Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:26 pm

I have a feeling, Simon, that the change was mandated by minimum size ( and maximum height from floor ) requirements in the US regulations and fairly similar changes in the Construction and Use Regs here

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Steve Marshall
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#127 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by Steve Marshall » Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:53 pm

Rubber bumper strips: - reported speech really. The mechanic told me that he sees lots of S2s with the strip fitted wrongly with an ugly broad strip of rubber visible. He demonstrated by going over to one like that which was just in, and pulling it off (very easily) to show me that it is actually the same section as the new rubber on mine. I had always thought it was just another S2 difference.

I have no problem maiming the overriders, but I wonder if it possible to cut a slot in the MGB light casting to accommodate the bracket. Even if it is a bit brutal, and maybe not especially weatherproof. I would like to adjust the overriders anyway to make them parallel.

BTW the bumpers are standard S2, but with the plate that the centre section bolts into cut back to accept the S1 overriders.

The number plate lights are eBay 291832639469. I haven't really seen them in the dark properly, but I don't think that bolting them through the number plate works properly - too oblique.
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Steve Marshall
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#128 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by Steve Marshall » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:52 am

Jeff

Well I certainly was surprised, which is why I thought it be of interest to others. :shrug:

There isn't much this guy doesn't know about E-Types. I haven't seen him get anything wrong in a nut and bolt rebuild.

The S2 seal does differ from the S1 seal, but that doesn't preclude the possibility that it is commonly fitted wrongly. He specifically told me that this is the case, because I had said I was pleased he had used S1 strip, and how much better it looked.

It doesn't look great having a wavy wide black plastic strip, especially with a light body color (not my case).

When I take the bumper off I will make a dimensioned sketch and a close up.

Steve

PS I just bought a pair of old MGB rear lights on eBay for mock up purposes. I am still keen to see if there is a way which doesn't involve any body cutting or paint damage, and which can be reversed really easily.

For me it isn't the sheer size of the rear light units which is the problem, they look reasonably OK on an S3. It is the crude way they are attached to the S2 body which is really offensive. It would be nothing like as bad if Jaguar had done what they did at the front and remodelled the body in 1968 to accept them. The curious shape of the pressing at the S2 rear end suggests that it was designed to accept a quite different specific rear light unit, and that this plan was abandoned at the last minute, possibly in response to rapidly changing US regulations. That would be consistent with Jaguar commissioning S2 specific front lights, steering column, indicator stalk etc, and it doesn't look like the process would be driven by just saving a couple of bob by raiding the Elan parts bin.
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288gto
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#129 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by 288gto » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:29 am

I like the idea of any modifications being totally reversible. I was wondering whether I could make a complete filler panel using Series 1 repair sections that effectively turns the lower rear quarter panels back to Series 1 shape and then fit smaller lights. While I like the MG light set up in principal, I'm not sure about the little gap that shows above the outer pointed ends. Having spent hours trawling Google and E bay for "Lucas rear Lights" I now concede that Jaguar would have had a limited choice of existing light units to choose from that would fit.
The only thing I could find (post 1970 for regs) were those for a Lamborghini Miura and I won't be buying those as an experiment! :lol:
Classic Fiat 500 ones horizontally was another option but I'm not convinced. What I'm after is a slightly slimmer version of the L 807.

Ref "the curious shape of the pressing of the series2 rear end... ."
It is simply the Series 1 with a piece chopped out. No extra tooling costs required below the bumper line, hence my comments regarding the solution being cost (and probably time) driven.

Simon
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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Steve Marshall
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#130 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by Steve Marshall » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:53 pm

Simon

There is something i am not getting here, how would you be making up a complete filler panel to turn the lower rear quarter panels back to Series 1 shape, if there was no different re-tooling required below the bumper line? Wouldn't that make an S1 +S2 the same? Or did the S1 always have an extra pressing layer anyway?

As we are looking at radical solutions I thought I could drill some 8mm holes through the MGB reflector for two white reversing leds each side eBay 351605214304.

Steve
Nortonian mechanics Jan '69 S2 Roadster RHD Manual

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288gto
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#131 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by 288gto » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:32 pm

Steve, this is Monocoque Metalworks converting a Series 2 rear end to a Series 1.
Hopefully it explains what I mean about the lower rear quarter area.

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Simon
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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Steve Marshall
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#132 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by Steve Marshall » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:49 pm

Thanks Simon, that's really helpful.

So does the S1 have a pressed panel behind the curved one which is the same shape as an S2, and they just left the outer panel off the S2?

Steve
Last edited by Steve Marshall on Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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#133 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by Steve Marshall » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:03 pm

Jeff

I just wish that I had seen your idea of fixing the bracket with captive nuts before I had the body restored, I would have definitely have gone that route. Pity

Steve
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288gto
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#134 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by 288gto » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:37 am

Steve, if it's any consolation, I'm in the same position. :lol:

This pic of mine also gives a useful comparison with the one I posted above.

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Simon
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politeperson
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#135 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by politeperson » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:09 pm

I sort of think the earlier cars have a nicer bum in some ways however-

Don't forget what the ancient Chinese philosopher said

"The size of Series 2 E type Jaguar rear lights is a worry only held in the mind of Series 2 owners"

Most normal other people concentrate on the remaining 99% of the car, which is great, in fact the rest is in some ways better.
jaguar-etype-wallpaper-7.jpg
jaguar-etype-wallpaper-7.jpg (67.64 KiB) Viewed 2761 times
Whats not to like :shrug: ?
James

L.J.K. Setright was right.
"You just cant beat a good E-type"

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Steve Marshall
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#136 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by Steve Marshall » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:21 pm

That's part of the mystery explained, the OTS is completely different below the bumper from a coupe. Well mine is anyway. My OTS looks as if it is sculpted to accept a specific light unit which could have been contoured to fit the body, maybe a bit like an F-Type.

There is a vee shaped recess which might possibly have been intended to accept two bulb-holders, one above the other.

Is there any contemporaneous evidence to support the theory that the dog's breakfast which actually went into production was solely the result of a penny-pinching exercise? It's an odd theory when you consider that Jaguar paid for a custom front sidelight, and also re-tooled the bonnet to accept it quite elegantly.

What about the possibility that the rear end was redesigned to accept a custom, larger light unit to comply with US regs, then Jaguar were wrong-footed at the last minute by the requirement to lower the bumper. No actual evidence apart from the peculiar shape of the OTS rear quarter.

Anybody want to buy a pair of MGB rear lights?


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Last edited by Steve Marshall on Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Steve Marshall
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#137 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by Steve Marshall » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:24 pm

politeperson wrote:I sort of think the earlier cars have a nicer bum in some ways however-

Don't forget what the ancient Chinese philosopher said

"The size of Series 2 E type Jaguar rear lights is a worry only held in the mind of Series 2 owners"

Most normal other people concentrate on the remaining 99% of the car, which is great, in fact the rest is in some ways better.

jaguar-etype-wallpaper-7.jpg

Whats not to like :shrug: ?
I can't stand those S1 spinners, look so dissonant on an S2. :bigrin:

Steve
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288gto
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#138 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by 288gto » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:40 pm

Steve, that picture or yours is very interesting. Mine is an OTS and would appear to have a different shape below the bumper. The plot thickens.

Simon
Simon
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288gto
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#139 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by 288gto » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:41 pm

288gto wrote:

Image

Simon
Simon
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Steve Marshall
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#140 Re: Series 2 aesthetics

Post by Steve Marshall » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:43 pm

Mine is Feb 1969, what's yours?
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