Overheating

Talk about the E-Type Series 3

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Benjbern
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:07 pm
Switzerland

#1 Overheating

Post by Benjbern » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:52 pm

Hello
I'm having a overheating problem with my etype v12 it's a us model from 1972 low compressed version
The engine is overheating (going up to 110 degrees celsius) doesen't matter if it is 15 degrees or 35 degrees outside
i changed the waterpump, the thermostat, and opened the radiator and cleaned the inside of the radiator.
I also removed the cylinderheads and cleaned it and overhold it. Also the four carburetor.
I had some problems with the needles from the carburetor. On needle was wrong and the valves weren't on the right hight, but now i have adjusted it right.
All lines from the vacumsystem are new
The ignition is adjuster on 12 degrees.

What eles can i do to solve my problem?

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mgcjag
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#2 Re: Overheating

Post by mgcjag » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:25 pm

Hi....you mention you changed the thermostat......there are 2....Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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Benjbern
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Switzerland

#3 Re: Overheating

Post by Benjbern » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:03 am

mgcjag wrote:Hi....you mention you changed the thermostat......there are 2....Steve

Of course i change both. Because i'm from switzerland.. so english isn't my mother language

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jagwit
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#4 Re: Overheating

Post by jagwit » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:38 am

Benjbern wrote:What eles can i do to solve my problem?
A few ideas:
1) Are you sure that you fitted the correct head gaskets? Apparently there are small but important differences between HE and Pre-HE head gaskets (I would also like to know what they are);
2) are you sure that BOTH fans are rotating in the correct direction, also are those horizontal and vertical air openings in the cowling properly closed by the rubber flaps?;
3) Modern Thermostats do not always move far enough. That plate at the bottom end of the thermostat must physically close the bypass port in the thermostat housing. If this does not happen, hot coolant just keeps being recirculated through the engine. I bolt 3mm washers to my thermostats to ensure that the bypass port is closed - see pic below. You can measure the distance from the thermostat ridge to the bottom port and then you can boil the thermostat in a kettle to measure how far it moves;
4) This is most likely not your problem but I also make the port diameters into the head (below the thermostat housing) smaller so that more coolant flows to the rear of the engine to prevent hot spots at the rear of the engine. This caused my car to start boiling several minutes AFTER switching the car off and then it would dump lots of coolant on the ground.
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tn_20170621_221745.jpg (173.48 KiB) Viewed 992 times
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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Woolfi
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#5 Re: Overheating

Post by Woolfi » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:52 am

1. Start the motor, let it run in iddle, check the rising temperatures of the water cooler with a infrared thermometer.
2. Is it possible to take out the two thermostats and make a testdrive ? Is the water cooler still becomming to hot ?
Regards Wolfgang Gatza

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jagwit
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#6 Re: Overheating

Post by jagwit » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:04 am

Woolfi wrote: 2. Is it possible to take out the two thermostats and make a testdrive ? Is the water cooler still becomming to hot ?
This would not be sensible (possibly even dangerous) without first somehow closing the bypass ports. Doing so (without closing the bypass circuit) would surely result in the engine rapidly overheating?

Consider that the bypass cooling circuit is intended to warm the engine up quickly and is meant to be blocked by the thermostats once they are open and certainly offers an easier route for coolant to pass through than through the radiator.

Even if the engine somehow does not overheat, it still would not a good test to test the cooling effectiveness because we are interested in the temperature behaviour with coolant flowing ONLY through the radiator.
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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MarekH
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#7 Re: Overheating

Post by MarekH » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:15 pm

Firstly, how is this 110'c measured and where?
What are the symptoms of this overheating?

kind regards
Marek

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jagwit
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#8 Re: Overheating

Post by jagwit » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:47 pm

MarekH wrote:Firstly, how is this 110'c measured and where?
Very relevant question Marek!!

In my case, I find that my IR temp gauge simply does not take the correct reading when pointing it to the polished thermostat housing. I need to point it to the black metal portion of pipe that links the thermostat housing to the radiator. Then I get realistic readings.
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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Benjbern
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Switzerland

#9 Re: Overheating

Post by Benjbern » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:46 am

Thanks for this answers!

one Fan was going to the wrong side, but i changed this two month ago with two fans from a VW Golf Serie II This is a two Speed Fan. If i run the AC then the slow Fan is commin but if the Thermo switch is activatet, the high Speed is going. But then this Fans take almost 35 A Current.

I just used a normal Headgasket. I ordered this by dönni Siwtzerland this should be a goood retailer for parts. do someone know what is the different?

The Issu with the Bypassvalve is a good idea. i wannw check it soon

And I get this 110'c temp from a cable Thermometer witch was inside the water on the outlet port from the Thermostat left. On this Weekend i wanna check the Temperatur drop to the Radiator. If i measured the Temperatur with the IR temp gauge i get different values like between 105'c and 120'c. so i think you can't make good measunrings with a IR temp gauge

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jagwit
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#10 Re: Overheating

Post by jagwit » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:53 am

Benjbern wrote:This is a two Speed Fan. If i run the AC then the slow Fan is commin but if the Thermo switch is activatet, the high Speed is going. But then this Fans take almost 35 A Current.
My 7.2L Jensen Interceptor has the same fans as my E-type (original) and runs perfectly cool. My point is that if the cooling system is properly sorted, the standard fans are perfectly adequate to cool the engine even in our 40degC weather - AND - my car is fitted with A/C so the condenser is fitted in front of the radiator and the same radiator fans are used for A/C - on the E as well as the Jensen!

So, those 35A VW fans (with their alternator implications) SHOULD not be necessary.
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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MarekH
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#11 Re: Overheating

Post by MarekH » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:42 am

Since you are going to take out the thermostats to test to what depth they open to and whether this cuts off the bypass, also take out the temperature Jaguar sensor and measure its resistance in a pan of boiling water and as it cools.

Once back together, disconnect the blue/geen wire at the gauge and have someone make a note of the resistances whilst driving so you have a double check on the temperatures.

You can then reconnect it to the dash gauge and have some confidence as to what the gauge means.

You still haven't actually described any symptoms of overheating.

kind regards
Marek

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Adamski
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#12 Re: Overheating

Post by Adamski » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:18 pm

I had terrible problems with this. Solved issue by firstly fitting a high flow radiator core, more guts. Made sure all hoses were unblocked, found remnants of BARS leaks slug in vertical hose behind radiator. Multi blade fans (debated already) and finally those damned temperature control valves on the Strombergs being adjusted to open too early by carburettor overhaul idiot. Ran weak and this was the single worst issue.
Apart from this I had an overhauled pump, totally perfect radiator cap to hold pressure and timing at about 10-12 BTDC. Engage fans at stops to give some airflow around fuel system/inlet manifolds.
Modern fuel is also rubbish for these engines and you have to use the best available.
Adam
S3 V12 E Type FHC Manual 1972-owned since 1978

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