Laycock de Normanville

Talk about the E-Type Series 3
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lowact
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#1 Laycock de Normanville

Post by lowact » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:46 am

Hello, can anyone recommend who I should talk to about parts availability for LdM OD's? I was assuming O/D Spares in Rugby (odspares@aol.com) but have had no response to date. At the same time I note an old PeterCrespin post that includes "...the Laycock engineers who run the repair place in Sheffield..."
Might these be the same or different?
Thx
Regards,
ColinL
'72 OTS manual V12

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Durango2k
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#2 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by Durango2k » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:13 am

I got my spares from odspares. Very nice and helpful contact. Just wait, maybe nag them.

If someone here lives nearby, it may be an idea to go and have a look ?

Carsten (Klick!)
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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christopher storey
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#3 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by christopher storey » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:49 am

Overdrive Repair Services is definitely in the Sheffield area and I can recommend them. Their address is

1, 50 Rother Valley Way, Holbrook, Sheffield S20 3RW

Phone: 0114 248 2632

I have not come across OD spares in Rugby

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Ole-xke1974
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#4 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by Ole-xke1974 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:09 am

I used the Sheffield guys to have my O/D rebuilt and can recommend them for their work and customer focused attitude.
Cheers .......... Ole
1974 SIII E-Type w. XJ S2 4sp w. O/D

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Dave123m
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#5 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by Dave123m » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:32 pm

Hi,

Another positive vote for O/D Spares in Rugby, this is where I got all the parts for my uprated rebuild.

Dave definitely prefers to discuss by phone & he's picked up both times I have called him in the last week.

If time zones allow give him another call on Monday?

Good luck,

Dave.
Barn Find Series 3, 2+2; 38052 Miles when found
Unused 25 Years; found 13.01.12; returned to road 16.05.12
Pace Petroleum Company Car of Aston Martin Chairman Victor Gauntlett
Unrestored, driven to Le Mans Classic (x3), Switzerland, Italy, Gibraltar

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#6 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by lowact » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:24 am

Thx peoples, I will persist. Maybe write them a letter ...
Regards,
ColinL
'72 OTS manual V12

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TonyA
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#7 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by TonyA » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:29 pm

I have most parts to service a compact OD please feel free to drop me a line with what you need

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#8 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by lowact » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:35 pm

Thx Tony I certainly will, od (Compact type A) needs a lot. But not if I cannot first buy or swap a mainshaft, to convert my gearbox from a KF to a KFN type. So currently I have "all points bulletin" out for a kfn gearbox from xj6 s1 or s2 ...
How come u have OD parts?
Regards,
ColinL
'72 OTS manual V12

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TonyA
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#9 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by TonyA » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:42 pm

I repair Overdrives quite often and mainly compacts. Good luck finding a mainshaft thin on the ground
these days...... I also have a few complete MOD gearboxes to suit. Any all synchro Jaguar OD box mainshaft
will suit part number C21939

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#10 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by lowact » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:25 am

Woo hoo, check this out, OD and mainshaft ready to be fitted…

Image

Big thx to TonyA, also Dave of OD Spares in Rugby, Oz/UK tag team that made this happen for me. Highly recommended. TonyA has a collection of Copact Type A OD box’s to go if anyone local is interested.

Image

Now to figure out the wiring. Seems Lucas and Laycock don’t agree on the polarity …

Image
Image

Something to check when I choose me a relay …
Regards,
ColinL
'72 OTS manual V12

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#11 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by Ole-xke1974 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:33 pm

Moving forward. Good luck ..... Ole

My solution for O/D control is a bit more involved, but gives me the knowledge that I don't forget the switch is in "O/D mode" when leaving 4th gear and the O/D button is integrated into the gear knob.

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1974 SIII E-Type w. XJ S2 4sp w. O/D

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#12 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by lowact » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:40 pm

Hmm someone knows their electrics. I prefer the KISS philosophy, maybe why I'm leaning towards lucas relay, 4 terminals instead of 5 ... ;D
Knob is neat. I'm going "traditional", stick is jag from oz, knob is triumph from us, switch is MG from uk ...
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Regards,
ColinL
'72 OTS manual V12

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#13 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by Ole-xke1974 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:55 pm

The black block in my control box is the modern $3.00 version of the Lucas relay.
1974 SIII E-Type w. XJ S2 4sp w. O/D

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#14 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by lowact » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:58 am

I reckon the white thing is the relay. KAE brand, used by Volvo. I’m guessing that the black block is a transistor that, together with the rest of the electrics, automatically disengages yr overdrive when you change out of 4th gear, as well as enabling that 1-position switch on yr knob, press it once to engage or disengage OD?
Mine will be more basic, with 2 position IN/OUT switch. My understanding: when I change out of 4th OD will automatically disengage BUT, when I change back to 4th, OD will automatically reengage, if I haven’t manually switched to the OUT position.
Regards,
ColinL
'72 OTS manual V12

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#15 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by cactusman » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:56 am

The early MGBs were fitted with an over drive and incorporates a vacuum operated switch so if you switch the over drive out while your throttle is closed it keeps it engaged until you press the accelerator. As soon as you press the accelerator the overdrive will disengage . It means you do not get the disengagement jolt which happens if you disengage the overdrive with the car slowing and the vacuum switch not working or not fitted. Works brilliantly on my MGB. Sadly the later cars did not include the vacuum swiitch. Slightly more complex wiring....
and in case you are unaware NEVER put the car in reverse if you think the overdrive is engaged or severe damage will result.
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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#16 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by Ole-xke1974 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:52 am

lowact wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:58 am
I reckon the white thing is the relay. KAE brand, used by Volvo. I’m guessing that the black block is a transistor that, together with the rest of the electrics, automatically disengages yr overdrive when you change out of 4th gear, as well as enabling that 1-position switch on yr knob, press it once to engage or disengage OD?
Mine will be more basic, with 2 position IN/OUT switch. My understanding: when I change out of 4th OD will automatically disengage BUT, when I change back to 4th, OD will automatically reengage, if I haven’t manually switched to the OUT position.
You're right about the Volvo relay. That's the one in conjunction with the oblong board with electronic bits that gives me the push button operation as well as ensures that the O/D remains disengaged when I leave 4th gear and re-engage 4th without touching the push button.
The black box is the relay that handles the 20A peak current drawn by the O/D solenoid as well as changes the negative polarity supplied by the Volvo relay to a switched +12V.
1974 SIII E-Type w. XJ S2 4sp w. O/D

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#17 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by TonyA » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:25 am

Hi Colin,
You really dont need a relay for the OD but some prefer it. Most of the time a relay was fitted later due
to a problem with wiring or a switch issue. Jaguar never used a relay on OD cars as the holding current of the
solenoid is usually just above or below 1 amp the initial current draw is around 15amps. but I suppose its what you prefer really.... All the best

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#18 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by MarekH » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:47 am

You really DO need a relay and you also need to have a separate fuse for the overdrive solenoid additional circuit. Simply fitting a larger value fuse and incorporating that into your car's loom will provide the upstream part of the loom with little or no protection from your modifications, much like fitting a 50amp fuse for an "upgraded" fan on your radiator - the wiring will melt long before the fuse ever blows. Check my previous posts on electrical topics for details.

In the case of the overdrive solenoid, it does indeed add about 16amps to the current draw to fire up the overdrive. Once engaged a small armature is supposed to disconnect and leave it running with a current draw of about 2/3amp. Sadly, if there is corrosion on the contacts of that armature, it may not disconnect and will permanently pull a high current. This is a realistic possibility for these cars these days, as they are not used on a daily basis and the default position is a "closed contact" that may well never disengage.

Most relays are not polarity sensitive with regard to which coil winding is connected to positive or negative supply. Only those with a fitted diode across the coil windings are and the diode "points" to the more positive contact, regardless of whether you have a positive or negative earth car. (Relay boxes containing electronic circuits may be different, but they are generally not marketed with the basic W1,C2 etc or 87, 86 etc terminal designations.)

kind regards
Marek

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#19 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by lowact » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:12 pm

I note XJ6 S1 & S2 didn’t have an O/D relay, power was from the reverse light circuit, upstream of the gearbox switch, directly to the solenoid via the two switches. Etype S3, reversing lights are via dedicated wire from fuse #7, 35A. Fuse #7 also protects windscreen washer, heater fan, instruments, horn relay winding. If I don't change the fuse, leave it at 35A, no wiring could be overloaded? If this fuse doesn't blow, no relay required?
Regards,
ColinL
'72 OTS manual V12

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#20 Re: Laycock de Normanville

Post by MarekH » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:01 pm

I only responded to this thread because Tony gave contradicting advice. With the first sentence he said a relay wasn't needed and in the second sentence he said they were retrofitted when there had already been a problem. That means there obviously are problems which are not properly understood or addressed first time around.

The "problem" is that the wiring going into and back out of the gear lever knob where the overdrive switch sits is a thin spindly gauge of wire and cannot withstand 15amps persistently, which is the error condition I suggest you plan for. The thin wire wi'll melt long before the fuse blows and it'll take other bits of the harness with it when it does. Fuses don't prevent equipment or harness from malfunction - they react to the malfunction. I can think of no other circuit in your car which runs 15amps with such a thin gauge wire. All of the big currents are handled by thicker gauge wire for a reason. With the circuit as proposed by yourself, there is no guarantee that the 35amp fuse will blow before the wiring has already melted.

When doing modifications, you have to plan not only for the "it works" scenario, but also the failure mode when it doesn't work, to give yourself a safe fall-back position.

kind regards
Marek

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