Running Temperature etc

Talk about the E-Type Series 3

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colin gray
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#1 Running Temperature etc

Post by colin gray » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:51 pm

I have been out and about in the car today and noticed the temperature gauge needle was holding around the "L" on normal which seems to be a little high on the normal zone and I have to admit the temperatures are fairly high for the UK at present.
The gauge did not venture over the "L" and held steady for about an 80 mile round trip so I assume all is fairly okay and the fans were running each time when I switched off so they are working okay.
What are most other folks S3's temperature gauges showing generally ?
Has anyone made any mods to get their temperatures down a bit?
Hot engine equals a hot cabin in my car even with the floor etc insulated so a few degrees cooler would be nice.
I also understand that Jaguar gauges are only an indicator and known to not be the most accurate?

On another note I have previously repaired the Butec with new brushes and diode pack (external white one) I still have pulsing interior and headlamps along with a slight pulsing glow of the ignition light at night time, showing a healthy charge on the in car gauge and ideas out there?
Thanks

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Paul Buckley
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#2 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by Paul Buckley » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:31 pm

With reference to the last comment regarding pulsing lights with idling revs, I have the same symptoms and was going to ask the forum about it.
Watching with interest ......
Paul

1972 S3 OTS, 32k mls, a survivor.

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71 V12
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#3 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by 71 V12 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:07 pm

I would be inclined to check the voltage regulator. Check you have good clean earths. Check voltage across the battery with engine running and no loads. Check again with lights on etc.

Regards,

Kevin

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jagwit
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#4 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by jagwit » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:21 pm

Colin

What are the temperature rating of the thermostats in your car?

Did you measure them to be sure they close the bypass ports completely?
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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colin gray
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#5 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by colin gray » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:01 am

As far as the pulsing lights go I tried a new Voltage regulator and cleaned all the earth points on the battery and car body.
I have not had the Thermostats out of the car and everything is working and not overheating, I am curious where other series 3 cars temperature gauges run to determine if I should be looking to run cooler.
It was getting up towards 30 degrees when I drove out yesterday so it seemed to above it's usual place for our sub 20 UK climate (could just be the outside temp I guess)
I will have to check the stats and by pass ports etc, rad flush would possibly not go a miss too!
She is on standard fans and I see some folk have fitted later type fans but I am not sure how that would benefit things other than cooling things quicker but not necessarily more, as the stats would determine the temp overall.

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Ikebaddog
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#6 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by Ikebaddog » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:31 am

Have driven my series 3 hard and in some really bad traffic all through this summer, when temps have got so hot, it has melted the headliner glue!!! however temp has only creeped above the halfaway mark, fans kick in and all is well.
John
S3 2+2 1971
Aston V8 Vantage 2006
Caterham Supersprint 1.7 1989
Jeep Wrangler TJ

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Dave123m
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#7 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by Dave123m » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:55 pm

Hi,

I've just returned from a 2900 mile road trip to Sicily & through all of France & Italy (including the slow drive along the Amalfi Coast) the car temperature rarely moved from the 'N' of Normal.

The hottest it got was travelling up Mt Etna in 38 Degree ambient at around 1500 rpm in 3rd Gear & then it was only on 'M'.

I would suggest yours may be running a little warm but as mentioned before the gauge is only really a guide so if it doesn't boil & stays fairy constant in its position I would suggest all is probably OK.

I'm running std fans with std radiator & I had similar temperatures when I drove it to Gibraltar in 2016.

With regard to cabin temperatures I have fitted an additional thermally lined cover under the gearbox (above the exhausts) & that has made a significant difference & reduction in cabin temperature.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Dave
Image

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Barn Find Series 3, 2+2; 38052 Miles when found
Unused 25 Years; found 13.01.12; returned to road 16.05.12
Pace Petroleum Company Car of Aston Martin Chairman Victor Gauntlett
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colin gray
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#8 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by colin gray » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:33 pm

Recently fitted a headlining of the vintage car variety as it has no foam to disintegrate, used heat resistant adhesive too which is essential in car interiors according to trim suppliers. Maybe if I can get the temp down a bit it may reflect in the cabin temperatures coming down a bit too! I considered an exhaust heat shield so may give it a go, the floor insulation has helped but it is still quite warm and bearable which it sometimes wasn't in hot weather. For what it will cost I'll check the ignition timing and mixture as they can make a difference along with a couple of thermostats and flushing the radiator through. The belts are tight and I had a new water pump a year or so ago. Amalfi in the E type sounds great, it's a fabulous area but those motor bike riders we had riding the White lines in the middle of the road are something else! I'm surprised our taxi didn't take some of them out. I'll post the results when I've done it all and tried it out.
Thanks 👍

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jagwit
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#9 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by jagwit » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:28 am

Colin, new thermostats is no guarantee the they are working correctly.

Rather check those on your car. They should be 74degC and they should be at least 43mm from the bottom of the rim of the thermostat to the bottom of the smaller bypass port plate, when fully open.

My car still has original fans and AC. Even on a hot South African summers day, with ac on, overheating is the least of my worries.
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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42south
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#10 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by 42south » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:20 pm

Hi Colin,

Regarding those thermostats. One of our posters,Marekh, did an interesting research project some years ago where he discovered that most, if not all replacement thermostats available today did not open enough to close off the radiator bypass inlet, leading to hotter running.
So you may find difficulty in finding a modern thermostat that opens to the dimensions that Philip mentions in his post.
Marek's solution was to machine a raised delrin washer that fitted into the bypass inlet. This is a bit tricky for most of us, so the simpler solution is to weld or glue a normal washer to the bottom of the plate that closes the bypass inlet.

Make sure you buy the correct thermostats with the little poppet in the top plate.

If you would like to know what temp your motor is running at, or any part of the motor, then go on ebay and buy one of those little hand held Infrared temp guns. I see lots for around 5-10 GBP. I use one to look at temps of the front Vs rear of the engine, radiator top Vs bottom temp, and the effect of mods to the water rail ports to direct more flow to the rear of the engine. Its all good fun and most informative.

Cheers

Mark
Mark Brown
1971 S3 Etype
Son: when I grow up, I want to be a pilot
Dad: You’ll have to choose.

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vee12eman
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#11 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by vee12eman » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:55 pm

Hi Colin,

My car has a fairly modified cooling system, ally rad and modern fans. Those mods are expensive, only worthwhile in my case because I bought the car without either fans or rad and the upgrades were only very slightly more expensive than finding original spec items. Also, both were new whereas replacement original items were likely to be second hand and of unknown heritage. As such, these mods may be too much for you, they may well have been unnecessary as the cooling system of the V12 is nowhere near as bad as reputation has us believe, on the contrary, the standard system is quite good when in reasonable condition.

Engines tend to silt up if the correct additive (coolant or antifreeze, depends where in the world you live), so make sure you are using fresh, good quality additive and consider a full flush of the system. Another issue is the Otter switch sensing the radiator output temperature, which triggers the fans to run. These come (to the best of my knowledge) with only one setting and are not normally praised for their reliability. I replaced mine with the Coolcat adapter, which allows use of a modern, commonly available thermostatic switch used in several temperature settings on many modern cars. I chose a cool (75 degree centigrade) switch and my car runs really well with this set up, hovering around the “N” to “o” of “Normal”, with fans cutting in in traffic or when standing, when temperature reads around the “r”. They bring the temperature down quickly and normal service resumes. This is true even in 40 degree plus temperature, I have happily run the car in ambient temperature above 45 degrees.

As others say, the gauge is a guide, monitor it and if the car seems to run well, then problems are only indicated when the gauge shows a different temperature to the usual. However, the Coolcat modification may be good for peace of mind and allows more flexibility in set up.

Regards,

Simon
Simon S-Y
Series III FHC

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Adamski
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#12 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by Adamski » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:09 pm

Have owned car for 39 years, Done all cooling mods including high flow radiator, multiblade fans and replacement otter and gauge sender, thermostats the lot. My fans kick in on the L although I have a bypass for traffic, Helps cool the carburettors and dump out the heat. On motorway stays on the R but in traffic of after a good run creeps right over to L.Heads have been off, block cleaned, overhauled pump and all new hoses so for me it's as good as it gets with the rubbish fuel
I do occasionally hear of cars that never hit the L I think they're the exception. These cars really generate heat.
Adam
S3 V12 E Type FHC Manual 1972-owned since 1978

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JJC
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#13 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by JJC » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:29 pm

Yes sir.....the V12's generate heat, but not that far out of the ordinary. I have driven my Series 3 around NYC since new. Its a 1973, bought as a leftover in April of 1974. Nobody wanted a V-12 in those days. Toyota's very popular. Anyway, and in no particular order.......Years ago, I removed both thermostats...put them in a glass cabinet next to my baby shoes. Aluminum rad, original fans, which are more then enough for the job.. But for many, many years, I bypass all switches that regulate fans, and installed a toggle switch next to high beam toggle. Looks fine. Point is, I control the fans.....in winter, hardly turn them on......in summer, on almost all the time. I also flush rad at least once a year. Run a 50/50 mix all year.....result is temp gauge very seldom gets near the 'L' in NORMAL. Also rigged a plastic overflow plastic container to the left of the rad (drivers side in USA) . This keeps all air out of the system....even put in a bleed valve, but never use, as system rarely needs water. VERY, VERY important to keep air out of system, 13lbs cap, and thats the story. Never overheats, never warp the heads, 150K milkes in NYC, and my baby runs like new. Not rocket science.

Happy motoring !

JC

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jagwit
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#14 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by jagwit » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:32 am

JJC wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:29 pm
Years ago, I removed both thermostats...put them in a glass cabinet next to my baby shoes.
It would run even cooler if you closed off the bypass circuit.

For the sake of others and for the record: I for one, do not recommend removing the thermostats permanently.
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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JJC
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#15 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by JJC » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:58 am

For the sake of others ??? Oh well, ask 10 people, get 10 different answers.

Happy motoring !

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PeterCrespin
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#16 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by PeterCrespin » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:36 am

jagwit wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:32 am

It would run even cooler if you closed off the bypass circuit.

For the sake of others and for the record: I for one, do not recommend removing the thermostats permanently.
Quite right Philip, but I wouldn’t sweat it. John has a history elsewhere of extrapolating from the particular to the general and urging others to follow technically incorrect advice.

John’s car works for his needs and he has long term ownership to his credit, which makes him one of the good guys alright. Just don’t bother introducing incontrovertible theory or facts to sway a firmly-held opinion based on a sample of N=1, baby shoes and all.

I’m going to play nice because I’m in NYC a few times a year and I’d love to see his car. Ithink John and I could have a good time shooting the breeze one night.
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 79 S2 XJ12L; 97 XJ6L

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JJC
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#17 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by JJC » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:59 pm

Love to shoot the breeze, but first you must give me a a time when I urged others to follow my lead. Works for me, fine, does not work for someone else, well..no doubt they will figure it out. You mention "history elsewhere" , meaning of course the Jaguar Forum. I was banned till 2045 by the resident blowhard Andrew Massivego. All that jerk has done, is not let me share info from my vast experience in the automotive world with others seeking help. I still check in from time to time to find any pearls of wisdom that show up on occasion. Actually quite comical......I can continue to help my self to info posted on the forum, but don't have to help others ! Sad , but funny ! By the way Peter, its a steak dinner at The Palm on me when you can show how I "urged others" to do it my way. I am a guy who loves to help others........take my suggestion, or leave it. Supposed to be a helpful format for Jag owners and fans of the marque, not re-writing the Constitution here, or suggesting a new medical procedure.

JC

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Gfhug
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#18 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by Gfhug » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:40 pm

JJC wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:59 pm
I was banned till 2045
That's not so bad, most inappropriate content is banned till after 9 o'clock over here :lol:
S2 FHC Light Blue

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#19 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by JJC » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:43 pm

Too funny !! Love it !

JC

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colin gray
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#20 Re: Running Temperature etc

Post by colin gray » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:46 pm

So most Thermostats are rated at 82 degrees and I have not seen any for sale at a lower temperature so far, as I am in the UK. What rating were the originals?
I think I will try leaving them in for now until I know how it behaves with the new ones fitted. I will be flushing the system through but am leaving the work until after my daughters wedding as she wants the car there and a snapped bolt or some other issue would put the mockers on that and that's a risk to far at present.
I figure I can wait a week or two as the car is not boiling over and seems to be holding her own just a wee bit on the high side of normal.

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