6.0 V12 and 4 speed auto box transplant

Talk about the E-Type Series 3

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Curtis Bay
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#1 6.0 V12 and 4 speed auto box transplant

Post by Curtis Bay » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:50 am

I am kicking ideas around regarding the engine and transmission in my US specification auto V12 DHC and I am looking for any information on transplanting the engine and gearbox from a late model XJ12 / Daimler Double Six.

I have already priced up a full engine rebuild with a 6.1 litre conversion & throttle body injection mated to a 5 speed manual box and whilst this is nice solution which looks lovely it is going to be pricey.

I like the idea of a modern distributor-less engine with EFI and if this remains mated a four speed auto box there are some benefits over the manual including not having to worry about a clutch pedal and being able to drive in a more relaxed way etc.... (I already have a series 1 with a 5 speed conversion so have plenty of opportunities to change gear if I want to)

I have read about the issue of using the later model 6.0 V12 with a standard 3 speed auto but can't see why you would want to do that if you can obtain a full power train from a donor car.

I appreciate that the later engines and boxes have ECU's and that I will have to make the engine compatible with an E-Type but I have the original V12 from an E-Type which can donate its sump and timing cover etc.

Has anyone used a complete V12 drive line from a late 1990's car with the electronic controls or does anyone know why this is a really bad idea?
1965 Series 1 4.2 FHC - Opalescent silver blue metallic with grey interior
1974 Series 3 5.3 Auto DHC - Sable with biscuit interior - something which has to change!

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mgcjag
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#2 Re: 6.0 V12 and 4 speed auto box transplant

Post by mgcjag » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:08 pm

If your in the UK and intend to notify the DVLA of the engine change as you should do with any engine change....then you could run into registration problems....suggest you look into this as well as the technical issues
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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Topic author
Curtis Bay
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#3 Re: 6.0 V12 and 4 speed auto box transplant

Post by Curtis Bay » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:40 pm

Hi

The car is already registered in the UK so hopefully this will not present too much of an issue. I am very keen to hear from anyone who has transplanted a late '90s V12 and gearbox into anything......
1965 Series 1 4.2 FHC - Opalescent silver blue metallic with grey interior
1974 Series 3 5.3 Auto DHC - Sable with biscuit interior - something which has to change!

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Woolfi
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#4 Re: 6.0 V12 and 4 speed auto box transplant

Post by Woolfi » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:42 pm

Hello Curtis,
keep in mind, that the original auto box from an 1993 V12 limousine is a VERY heavy (117 kg) and big box. I think you have to change the shape of the gearbox tunnel of the car.
I have mounted such a motor with 4 stromberg carbs and a Getrag 5-speed into my EV12 OTC. Gas consumption roundabout 19 mpg (13,5 L/100 km) when crusing and quick.
But I can understand well, if somebody want's to drive this car with a relaxing auto box.
Regards Wolfgang Gatza

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Curtis Bay
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#5 Re: 6.0 V12 and 4 speed auto box transplant

Post by Curtis Bay » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:13 pm

Since my initial post I have been very lucky and managed to find a brand new, complete, unused 6.0 V12. This is already fitted with all the E-Type parts and the full fuel injection system. It has the latest, high impedance injectors fitted from the final version of the V12 which was distibutorless although the engine I have bought is actually the last of the Marelli distributor models (no distributor is fitted).

My plan is to install a manual box - I have found a Tremec T5 from a TVR speed 6 Tuscan car so the torque rating should be OK.

My question is what standalone ECU do you recommend. I see that E-Type UK use Emerald for their conversions but others are available and I am keen to hear from anyone who has done the conversion. I want to use close loop processing with wide band Lambda sensors and I plan on replacing the standard Auxiliary Air Valve with an electronic one controlled by the ECU to bring things up to date and avoid the cost of having to buy an original valve as mine has been removed.

Any thoughts or recommendations gratefully received.
1965 Series 1 4.2 FHC - Opalescent silver blue metallic with grey interior
1974 Series 3 5.3 Auto DHC - Sable with biscuit interior - something which has to change!

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MarekH
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#6 Re: 6.0 V12 and 4 speed auto box transplant

Post by MarekH » Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:00 pm

There are plenty of threads on fuel injection already, so take your pick. If you want to do it all yourself, then you have plenty of choice and I'd recommend you just copy someone else's installation; if you want to farm the work out, then chose someone who has already done the conversion a few times, rather than pay to reinvent the wheel with a new ECU.

The bolt pattern for the gearbox bellhousing on the back of the block is different than on the earlier 5.3litre engine, so plan accordingly.

kind regards
Marek

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Curtis Bay
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#7 Re: 6.0 V12 and 4 speed auto box transplant

Post by Curtis Bay » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:20 pm

I have had a look though some of the posts on EFI for the series 3 but most appear to be work in progress. I was keen to hear from anyone who has had a system up and running for some time and what they have found driving in the real world.
1965 Series 1 4.2 FHC - Opalescent silver blue metallic with grey interior
1974 Series 3 5.3 Auto DHC - Sable with biscuit interior - something which has to change!

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MarekH
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#8 Re: 6.0 V12 and 4 speed auto box transplant

Post by MarekH » Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:42 pm

I've been running a v12 fully sequentially using Megasquirt since 2011. All of the threads where a third party garage did the conversion are similarly completed jobs.

If you want to drive up to Surrey then you can look at it in the flesh and I can answer all of your questions in as much detail as you like. To a large degree, the direction you take will be dictated by how much of an educational experience you want from this versus how much you want to pay a third party for having made that journey before you.

In my case, I either designed, built or programmed pretty much everything myself, but that isn't the route most people will necessarily take when they go down this path.

kind regards
Marek

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Curtis Bay
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#9 Re: 6.0 V12 and 4 speed auto box transplant

Post by Curtis Bay » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:38 pm

Thanks MarekH
I am looking for a relatively pain free experience and like the idea of the ECU manufacturer being able to run the car on their own rolling road to get a good map for the specific engine. Wiring and installing sensors etc is no problem but I don't want to go anywhere near the electronics in the ECU. I am happy to leave that to the experts. It is all black magic to me.
I am leaning towards Emerald for this reason and as I previously stated the injectors fitted to my engine are the high impedance type so the complications of low impedance injectors is not on my radar.
I like the idea of having fully sequential injection but as far as I can see there is only one system that offers this (Adaptronics) and it gets quite expensive if you want to run all the injectors separately. Batch injection seems to be more than agreeable to most and I think your Megasquirt system must run this way. Is this the case because you seem very happy with it?
Has anyone had any experience of Emerald on a V12? They get very supportive comments from a few owners of fuel injected XK engined cars.
1965 Series 1 4.2 FHC - Opalescent silver blue metallic with grey interior
1974 Series 3 5.3 Auto DHC - Sable with biscuit interior - something which has to change!

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MarekH
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#10 Re: 6.0 V12 and 4 speed auto box transplant

Post by MarekH » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:23 pm

Fueling for both petrol and lpg is fully sequential. I am happy with it.

kind regards
Marek

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