E-type Tinder

Talk about the E-Type Series 3

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JoeLondon
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#1 E-type Tinder

Post by JoeLondon » Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:33 pm

What would she be like, will she behave, does she look like her pictures, is there going to be a spark, is she going all the way, is she going to be high maintenance?

Truthfully, she looks better in the photos of course, it was a tense first date, but day 2 is already looking better.

The drive from Bucks to London, as per previous post, all the gauges except Speedo died (unexpected benefit, I'm getting better at spelling the word gauges now). That would seem to be an earth issue that has magically rectified itself for the moment. :?:

Then all the gauges came back except for the temp. Got me worried sitting in gridlocked traffic coming over Albert Bridge. Sure enough right at the lights before the busy junction the engine starts to die...I JUST about made it across the crossroads and coasted to the embankment pavement. I'm paranoid it's overheating. After procurement of large pack of Evian (Nothing but the best for this chick) just about to fill the water and noticed vacuum hose from carb is detached, reminds of of Daniel Craig in Casino Royale trying to use his defibrillator.. amazing how such a small cheap part stops this massive beating heart...we made it home in another 5 minutes.

Found the temp sender, contact was covered in corrosion. Sorted.

After unloading the spares, took my wife and the new mistress to the pub and wound down, enjoyed watching the public fall over themselves trying to get pictures and nearly getting run over by the No. 11 in the process.


Things of note:

Gearbox judder in first gear, makes it tricky to set off.
Third gear a bit fussy to select, and noisy when you get there.
Bit of rust through under the nose cone near indicators.
Need to find that earth issue.
Not entirely sure she's been converted to unleaded, have to find out.
Need to fix indicator stalk and floppy sun visor
Interior could do with a clean
Might need rear shocks
Needs new exhaust, she's blown her back box
Heater controls need adjusting
Replace/fix the centre console and elbow rest.
Brake pads
Check all bushings, tie rod ends etc etc

All in all, could be worse and in summary I think she's a keeper.

My oh my was there plenty of power under that pedal... 4 speed manual box, doing 60 the rev counter is barely off zero.. is that correct? How far are you going when you hit that redline?!
Blip pedal, hit (ahem) 70 in no time. Didn't want to push her until we've gotten to know eachother a little better.

She's pretty.



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Joe
1972 S3 2+2 V12 Manual, FHC, Racing Green

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rswaffie
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#2 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by rswaffie » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:52 pm

Doesn’t seem like a bad snagging list. Glad you managed to get it to the pub!
All six cylinder xk engines used in S1 & S2 E’s and saloons had hardened valve seats by design - I’m assuming v12’s Are the same.
Richard

S1 3.8 FHC Opalescent Golden Sand with Tan Trim 889504
Now running-in my diy nut ‘n’ bolt restoration. :wrench: :hammer: :fingerscrossed:

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JoeLondon
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#3 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by JoeLondon » Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:58 pm

Thanks Richard.

I'm trying to figure out a day off to take her up to see Angus Moss.

She overheated in traffic again today and spat out all her Evian... Might have to try Perrier.

I wonder if the fans aren't kicking in. Before I set back off I tried shorting the fan to run, seemed only the left fan working. Perhaps I put the wires back inverted coz it runs all the time now...which is what I needed to get her home. Temperature stayed very low all the way back, managed to dodge traffic too which helps. But obviously the battery was bearing the brunt, indicators were super slow because of it, battery meter was just below half when it's normally been all the way to the right. Wonder if she's got probs with the alternator as the ignition light flickers a lot all the time.
Joe
1972 S3 2+2 V12 Manual, FHC, Racing Green

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rswaffie
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#4 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by rswaffie » Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:12 pm

Is the belt tension ok - sometimes if it is loose you get the charging issues you mention.
Richard

S1 3.8 FHC Opalescent Golden Sand with Tan Trim 889504
Now running-in my diy nut ‘n’ bolt restoration. :wrench: :hammer: :fingerscrossed:

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JoeLondon
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#5 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by JoeLondon » Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:15 pm

Yes belt seems fine.
Joe
1972 S3 2+2 V12 Manual, FHC, Racing Green

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42south
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#6 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by 42south » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:21 am

Hi
Love the post.
On the V12 there are hardened valve seats.
With your water overflow, are you filling the radiator header tank to the top?
If so, don’t, as the expansion of the water as it heats up will spit out quite a bit. I find that the header tank should sit at about half full.
Where does the temp gauge sit, mine is normally on the R or M of normal.
Mark Brown
1971 S3 Etype
Son: when I grow up, I want to be a pilot
Dad: You’ll have to choose.

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jagwit
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#7 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by jagwit » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:55 am

JoeLondon wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:33 pm


Things of note:
just about to fill the water
Gearbox judder in first gear, makes it tricky to set off.
Need to find that earth issue.
doing 60 the rev counter is barely off zero.. is that correct?
Cooling: So the car did not actually overheat? Good sign. Still, many of them are fitted with incorrect thermostats. Remove and make sure that it has the correct physical format (temp too). The V12 requires those with the small round metal foot. You (or your garage) also needs to make sure that they physically move far enough to close off the bypass port. Many new thermostats don't.

Shudder in 1st: When my ex S3 OTS manual did this, I would stop against my steepish driveway, select 4th, put 3k rpm on the dial and try to drive up (won't of course) keeping revs high. At the first smell of "burning clutch" stop. Doing so burns off a layer of oil residue on the clutch and flywheel. It would then be smooth for quite a while OR remove engine, repair oil leaks, replace clutch etc....

That bad earth is bad. Will give you false readings on the gauges.

You should be doing about 2500 rpm at 60mph. (you did not specify mph vs km/h)
Best Regards
Philip
Jag: 72 E-type V12, 80 XJS (Megasquirt + 5sp manual O/D)
Jensen: 74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + O/D 4sp auto)
Chev: 59 Apache std, 70 C10 (350V8, 700R4)

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JoeLondon
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#8 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by JoeLondon » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:49 am

42south wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:21 am
Hi
Love the post.
On the V12 there are hardened valve seats.
With your water overflow, are you filling the radiator header tank to the top?
If so, don’t, as the expansion of the water as it heats up will spit out quite a bit. I find that the header tank should sit at about half full.
Where does the temp gauge sit, mine is normally on the R or M of normal.
Thanks Mark.

I did fill it all the way. So maybe that explains why I had the familiar smell of hot rusty water on the way back even though the temp was low. Noted.
The gauge sits at 3/4 usually. Which I would assume to be correct?
With the fan running full time it doesn't make it over 1/2. (I was also driving very lightly and with no traffic on the way back)

jagwit wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:55 am
JoeLondon wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:33 pm

Cooling: So the car did not actually overheat? Good sign. Still, many of them are fitted with incorrect thermostats. Remove and make sure that it has the correct physical format (temp too). The V12 requires those with the small round metal foot. You (or your garage) also needs to make sure that they physically move far enough to close off the bypass port. Many new thermostats don't.

Shudder in 1st: When my ex S3 OTS manual did this, I would stop against my steepish driveway, select 4th, put 3k rpm on the dial and try to drive up (won't of course) keeping revs high. At the first smell of "burning clutch" stop. Doing so burns off a layer of oil residue on the clutch and flywheel. It would then be smooth for quite a while OR remove engine, repair oil leaks, replace clutch etc....

That bad earth is bad. Will give you false readings on the gauges.

You should be doing about 2500 rpm at 60mph. (you did not specify mph vs km/h)
It did overheat, but I had managed to finding parking (amazing in itself) just as the gauge started to rise suddenly, I pulled over and she spewed about 4 litres at the side of the road.
Is there only one temperature sender? I remember seeing someone mention there are 2, but I only find the 1. The gauge seems to work ok, the readings seem sensible.
I pulled 2 wires off the thermoswitch, touched them together lightly, heard clicking but no fan running, then it came on but only for a bit, I couldn't repeat it, so I plugged the wires back (dusk in a dark London side street) I may have put them the wrong way round, because fan on with ignition. (Perfect for now). Need to look at diagrams to find thermostats location, believe there are 2 of these also.

Ok, so oil on the clutch plate, that would explain why someone mentioned it would disappear with usage. But seems to me it comes back. So probably needs sorting. On a 30 second look at changing the clutch I see you have to take quite a few bits off, they say engine out, I'm not sure if it's engine out or body off, that an amazing task. Certainly leaving that alone for the moment, unless I need to get in there for other things.

MPH... I think it was at about 1500rpm. iirc, but there's oceans of space between that and redline.. can't wait to see what happen s in that range.

After a trip to Angus methinks.

I can't figure a day off, might need a transporter
Joe
1972 S3 2+2 V12 Manual, FHC, Racing Green

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jagwit
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#9 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by jagwit » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:12 pm

JoeLondon wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:49 am
The gauge sits at 3/4 usually. Which I would assume to be correct?
With the fan running full time it doesn't make it over 1/2. (I was also driving very lightly and with no traffic on the way back)


It did overheat, but I had managed to finding parking (amazing in itself) just as the gauge started to rise suddenly, I pulled over and she spewed about 4 litres at the side of the road.
Is there only one temperature sender?

I pulled 2 wires off the thermoswitch,

Ok, so oil on the clutch plate, that would explain why someone mentioned it would disappear with usage.
Mark is correct. Never fill it more than half. 20L of coolant can expand by at least 300ml when going up to 80ºC from 20ºC. I would recommend fitting 74ºC thermostats (with the bypass plate). There are TWO of them, under the housing where the two large pipes from the radiator top terminate on the engine. Always use DISTILLED water or coolant premix (from a highly reputable brand).

There is only one temperature sender behind the thermostat housing on the RH side of the engine.

Your test with the wires off the thermostatic switch is good. That, along with the sudden overheating confirms the fans are not coming on. It confirms that the fan relays are energised but somehow power does not get to the fans. Fuse most likely.
Best Regards
Philip
Jag: 72 E-type V12, 80 XJS (Megasquirt + 5sp manual O/D)
Jensen: 74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + O/D 4sp auto)
Chev: 59 Apache std, 70 C10 (350V8, 700R4)

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Bob.
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#10 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by Bob. » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:31 pm

Fan relay fuse (No 7) is the same as for the rev counter and other gauges that packed up intermittently before.
Fuse 7 is third one down on the right behind drop down instrument panel.

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Bob
'71 S3

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#11 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by JoeLondon » Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:00 pm

Not convinced it's fuse as it works when wired in reverse. Checked them anyway, all seem ok and cleaned up.

Can't figure out why only the left fan runs. Mind you, sparks aren't really my thing, so if it's not blatant or easy I get miffed quickly.

But, I would think that as the one fan runs, the fuse and wiring are ok, the mechanism to tell them to do so is not operating properly.

Would only be the thermoswitch at a guess?

I see where the thermostats are. And I'd be willing to bet that a good coating of furry white stuff is not original Jaguar equipment..
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#12 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by PeterCrespin » Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:56 pm

For judder check the engine and rear transmission mounts. Try starting in second to see if there’s any difference. A good V12 can go from 0-150 in top gear, as salespeople in the 1970s would gleefully demonstrate, given the right road...
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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#13 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by jagwit » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:23 am

JoeLondon wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:00 pm
Can't figure out why only the left fan runs.

Would only be the thermoswitch at a guess?

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BOTH fans are powered from the same relay. If one fan runs, the problem must be related to the one motor. First thing to check for that motor wound be its earth. IF you can (wires long enough) swop the plugs for the two motors around. If same motor runs, it confirms that the "dead" motor has an issue, not the supply to that motor.
Best Regards
Philip
Jag: 72 E-type V12, 80 XJS (Megasquirt + 5sp manual O/D)
Jensen: 74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + O/D 4sp auto)
Chev: 59 Apache std, 70 C10 (350V8, 700R4)

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#14 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by JoeLondon » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:30 am

Makes perfect sense.

Thanks Philip.

Things do seem to get slightly better the more I drive it. Poor girl has probably been stuck in a garage for 10 years. Largest mileage between MOTs since 2015 is 179! Average is 60. She needs to blow off the cobwebs, and probably spit out a few crumbled o rings
Joe
1972 S3 2+2 V12 Manual, FHC, Racing Green

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#15 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by jagwit » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:53 am

Looking at the condition of the engine in your pic, it clearly has received no loving care.

I notice that the hot air duct from exhaust manifold to the air cleaner is missing on LHS (RHS??). In your climate that item is kinda important for a quick warm-up. Perhaps put on the list to fit and check operation of the flaps that controls where the engine gets air from.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15583
Best Regards
Philip
Jag: 72 E-type V12, 80 XJS (Megasquirt + 5sp manual O/D)
Jensen: 74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + O/D 4sp auto)
Chev: 59 Apache std, 70 C10 (350V8, 700R4)

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#16 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by Herzeg » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:15 am

JoeLondon wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:58 pm
Thanks Richard.

She overheated in traffic again today and spat out all her Evian... Might have to try Perrier.


Perhaps you should try English water, not French? Maybe something from the Malverns - not sure if they have bottled water from Coventry?

John
1969 S2 OTS

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#17 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by JoeLondon » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:20 am

Fantastic. Thanks! I have been looking at these and wondering what should be attached. Both sides missing. Explains why the cold start takes ages to warm up. Is there any reason someone would disconnect these? Other than poor stewardship.

Image of other side added to show she's well balanced.

What is the little thing on the side of the air cleaner near the port, looks like an mini oil can or a breather of some sort.




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#18 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by JoeLondon » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:27 am

Herzeg wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:15 am
JoeLondon wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:58 pm
Thanks Richard.

She overheated in traffic again today and spat out all her Evian... Might have to try Perrier.


Perhaps you should try English water, not French? Maybe something from the Malverns - not sure if they have bottled water from Coventry?

John


Beer!
Joe
1972 S3 2+2 V12 Manual, FHC, Racing Green

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#19 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by JoeLondon » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:32 am

What is the little thing on the side of the air cleaner near the port, looks like an mini oil can or a breather of some sort.

I see it's the diaphragms from your other post!
Joe
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#20 Re: E-type Tinder

Post by JoeLondon » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:39 am

jagwit wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:53 am
Looking at the condition of the engine in your pic, it clearly has received no loving care.

Hopefully this also means is hasn't been messed around with! Have minded to leave a review for.the servicing garage who's name is on all the old bills. They mention sorting almost all the parts that are in need of sorting.. funny that.

Last order of the day will be to clean this engine up and give her some TLC, once everything has been checked and rectified.

Weirdly, the trumpets look spanking new.
Joe
1972 S3 2+2 V12 Manual, FHC, Racing Green

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