Upper Steering Column Ser3

[MaxieCoak47]

I have had an issue with non stop horn. Reading up and looking at Ops Manual and Parts Catalogue plus reading Forum convinced it was shorting out in column so ordered Kit to replace collar and brass pin. Having taken upper column out found it was a 7981118 Mesh body and I cannot see how I could fit the kit. Have drilled out ignition steering lock shear bolt but before continue dissmantling column would appreciate feedback. Before I took it out steering was fine with no play so reluctant to strip down if not necessary. I did notice when on bench the live feed clip /holder C29320 had moved and was touching body of column. From the start I have not seen an earth point or wire on the column. Would appreciate any feedback. Regards.Max Coaker

[Bob.]

Hi Max,
Wellcome to the Forum. There has been quite a lot of discussion and information on the S3 upper steering column recently on the jag-lovers forum, you may find this helpful.
https://forums.jag-lovers.com/t/craig-r ... /436062/34

Bob

[MarekH]

I did notice when on bench the live feed clip /holder C29320 had moved and was touching body of column.

Dear Max,
the body of the column is bolted into the chassis, so it is permanently earthed. Your so-called "live feed" is actually the earth side of the horn relay winding. (It's the other relay winding which is live.) You are permanently turning the relay on. To fix it, you need to make sure that what you call "the live feed" is only going to the horn push centre part of the column, so it'll only reach the body of the main column (and hence the chassis where it completes the relay winding circuit) when the horn is actually pushed.
kind regards
Marek

[angelw]

Max Wrote:

so ordered Kit to replace collar and brass pin.

Hello Max,
Who did you get the kit from? If the part number is SBS1279, its the correct part number, but the wrong part. Measure the ID of the Brass Contact Sleeve in the kit that you have, it should be 1 + 3/16", if not, then you have the wrong kit. It's my understanding that the correct kit for the S3 E Type is no longer available. Read the Jag Lovers Thread Bob referred you to.

Regards,

Bill

[MaxieCoak47]

Many Thanks Bill. Yes the kit was as you say a SBS 1279 and the brass ring was in fact !.36 in closer to 1 + 3/8 plus I coild not see how the black plastic bush with sleeve for brasss pin would fit. Thanks for advice.

[MaxieCoak47]

Many Thanks Marek. Looking at Chris Vines article re upper column that is exactly the column I have and reading other articles about earthing and buying kits to replace disintergrated pins and bushes has thrown me. What you say makes sense about the column is earthed to the chassis , it is the black/purple cable with bullet connections that pushes into C29320 , so if that was touching the column body then I guess it would directly to earth. While column is on bench I will carry out some continuity tests . Thanks again for feedback. Max

[MaxieCoak47]

Many Thanks Bob . I have read so much about earthing on upper column and with so many part variations I was getting confused as to what was right fix. Yes I have read Chris Vines very good article and it is the same column as mine but his issues were the rebuild and not specifically the horn but did give me a lot of insight into the rebuild. I will carry out some continuity testing to see if the problem is still there before dismantling.
Thanks again. Max

[angelw]

Max Wrote:

Yes the kit was as you say a SBS 1279 and the brass ring was in fact !.36 in closer to 1 + 3/8 plus I coild not see how the black plastic bush with sleeve for brasss pin would fit

Hello Max,
I made quite a few Posts on the subject on the JL Forum, with pictures showing the hopelessly loose fit of the SBS1279 kit Brass Contact Sleeve and its insulator on the Inner Steering Column and that the Brass Contact Sleeve has no hope whatsoever of fitting inside the Outer Steering Column.

Via many emails to one supplier, I reported the SBS1279 kit as being wrong. Accordingly, they are well aware that this kit is wrong, but, if your kit was supplied by the same supplier, its seems that they are still selling it as being correct.

Even with the correct parts, the Brass Contact Sleeve is not easy to push onto its insulator. Accordingly, I made a set of assembly tools that makes the job simple and a quality result. Pictures of the tool are Posted on the JL Forum.

Regards,

Bill

[MaxieCoak47]

Thanks Bill. Yes it probably is the same supplier selling it. Further to my last replies I have run continuity tests and get positive result horn press button- C29230 brass collar but also from same collar to column body which I would have thought would happen until horn button is pressed to complete circuit to column body. To investigate further and dismantle as per Chris Vines, unlike his photos I have a white polythene cover over lower position which prevents me from removing large retaining cap to access circlip to withdraw outer column shaft.See photos Any ideas? Great car in great condition and the horn is a major hold up!!!

[angelw]

Hello Max,
With regards to continuance, start by removing the Copper Contact Wipe that the Purple wire with Black Trace is connected to. It's secured to the Outer Steering Column by two small bolts and removing this part will avoid confusion if this part is shorting to ground.

Once this part is removed, you should see continuance from the Brass Contact Sleeve, the sleeve that the Copper Wipe that you removed was in contact with, through to the top of the brass rod that protrudes from the centre of the Inner Steering Column and is exposed when the Horn Button is removed. If that checks out correctly, test for continuance between either the Brass Contact Sleeve, or the Brass Centre Rod where it protrudes from the Inner Steering Column, and the Outer Steering Column. Conduct the continuance test between either the Brass Contact Sleeve, or the Brass Centre Rod, and the Inner Steering Column. In both cases, you should see no continuance whatsoever.

If the tests described above check out correctly, reattach the Copper Wipe Contact removed earlier, taking care to ensure its insulated from the Outer Steering Column. Once installed, a continuance test should show Zero continuance between the Outer Steering Column and any of the components between and including the Copper Wipe Contact and the top end of the Brass Rod protruding from the centre of the Inner Steering Column.

The white plastic collar you refer to conceals a spring. You should be able to push the large cap between it and the circlip towards the horn button end of the Steering Column enough to remove the circlip. You may have to arrange the assembly under the ram of a press to be able to press the cap away from the circlip.

Regards,

Bill

[MaxieCoak47]

Thanks again Bill, I thought that it was sorted with no continuance between brass contact sleeve/brass central rod and outer column but checking this morning and turning inner column and retesting I find continuance. From another post written they also had problems when wheel was turned in certain area so I guess I have the same intermittant problem. Nothing else to do but strip whole thing down and check out brass sprung pin.You mentioned you had made up some tools to fit contact sleeve,also how did you overcome the over large sleeve, could you please advise where I can find details on Jag lovers forum. Thanks again and best regards
Max

[angelw]

Hello Max,
The following link should get you there, with the discussion on the steering column starting at about Post #34

https://forums.jag-lovers.com/t/craig-r ... /436062/40

With regards to the correct Contact Sleeve, I made my own.

Regards,

Bill

[MaxieCoak47]

Hello Bill thanks for your patience. I have read the correspondence between yourself and Craig Balzer plus a detailed account from Craig Capron. The interesting bits I have picked up is your mention of conductive crud and went back to the column and twisted the inner brass rod a few times and sure enough no continuity reading between brass rod/contact sleeve and outer sleeve. Unlike the picture, the end my brass rod is in better condition and mine too is missing a sprong what ever that is, I did insert a small electrical screw with reduced head but seemed to make things worse. The car has less than 50000 miles on the clock and the column is tight with no play and the contact sleeve is bright with little outward signs of wear. I am still reluctant to force the white lower cover, remove circlip and pull out inner sleeve especially if repair kits are no longer available. Cleaning out the inner sleeve and outer contact sleeve is next action and will keep you posted. Best Regards
Max

[MaxieCoak47]

Hi Bill. Thank you once again for your valuable advice, the car has passed the MoT with the horn working, in the end I used a piece of 10mm rope with frayed ends dipped in meths to push down inner shaft to clean up loose 'crud'. An interesting twist is that the Rev counter previously not working (was on my list of jobs) has sparked into life, looking at wiring diagram the green cable from Counter is in a common fuse link with horn. However I now have a seal leak in the power steering and the MoT tester tells me a weep in water pump so more work to do. I am looking to rig up a pully system to lift bonnet off and suspend from roof beams to give me good access to front of engine. Still thats what I bought car for to fiddle with, something I don't get with the day car.
Thanks again and best regards
Max