5.3 or 6.0 engine for fuel injection?

Talk about the E-Type Series 3

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carlv12
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 1:39 pm
Location: Valencia
Germany

#1 5.3 or 6.0 engine for fuel injection?

Post by carlv12 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:50 pm

Hello,

I have read almost all information about converting a V12 with Stromberg's to fuel injection. What I always have heard is that the Lucas ignition and 5.3 ECU is easier to fit than the 6.0 with its Marelli ignition and ECU.

I can use the engine from a 5.3 litre or but a good 6.0 XJ81 and use this engine.

Is it really necessary to re-programm the ECU considering that my E-Type has a manual transmission?

What are your experiences?

Thanh you and best regards from Valencia

Carlos

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MarekH
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#2

Post by MarekH » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:58 pm

Dear Carlos,

Why do you want to fit 20 year old semi-life expired electrics made by Marelli or Lucas when you can fit a modern fully programmable fuel injection system instead?

kind regards
Marek

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carlv12
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Location: Valencia
Germany

#3

Post by carlv12 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:30 am

Hello Marek,

please give me more details about your answer. Where can I buy this fully programmable system, price etc.

Due to the fact that I have a Dodge Viper SRT10 with a supercharger and 700 HP, I really do not want to spend a lot of money only to get more power on the E-Type. For me the E-Type is a beautiful old car, but I never drive very fast with it.

Regards

Carlos

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MarekH
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#4

Post by MarekH » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:13 am

Dear Carlos,

Have a look at the Megasquirt website (msextra.com) and the photo albums on the US jag site (jag-lovers.org) for examples of v12 cars running fuel injection.

My car runs MS3; others have used MS2extra.

kind regards
Marek

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MLBS3V12
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#5 V12 injection

Post by MLBS3V12 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:33 am

Hi Marek,

I plan to fit n XJS injection S3 on my car. I've found the engine with all the cables and the ECU.
I interesting with your own experience.
Could you give us more d?tails on the job done with the solution your are proposing ?
Any pictures ?
Regards
Le chemin sera long!...

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MarekH
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#6

Post by MarekH » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:30 am

Dear Michel,

I am not advocating any particular solution, merely replying to Carlos's enquiry. There are plenty of details on the websites I mentioned in the previous post. My car runs sequential fuel injection via MS3/MS3X and Philip Lochner's (now sold I believe) car runs batch fired MS2.

Here are several examples:-
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_vi ... 1320597978
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_vi ... 1270231657
http://www.msruns.com/index.php

If you search for other photo albums by the same authors and posts made at around the same time, you will have more background information to digest.

kind regards
Marek

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MLBS3V12
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#7

Post by MLBS3V12 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:53 am

Marek,

The sites around Megasquirt are amaizing in term of information. This system seems to be fantastic and not too expensive to be used on a V12.
What kind of improvement have you got on your car?
Was it not too hard to tune and definine the best mapping for fuel?
Have you done all by yourself?
Let us know your own experience.
Regards
Michel
Le chemin sera long!...

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#8

Post by MarekH » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:46 am

Dear Michel,

I did do all of the work myself, although a few others in the MS cimmunity were most helpful.

You'll have to define "improvement", as the car I put back together was different from the car which was taken apart:- the freshly rebuilt engine is a very high compression HE engine with a different camshaft rather than a tired old US specification low compression flat head motor; it is manual with overdrive instead of automatic and there are a host of electronic upgrades beneath the skin. In terms of milage, the old one consistently returned 11mpg whilst the new one varies between 12 and 20+mpg, whilst running on lpg. I generally don't run on petroil, as it is twice as expensive as lpg, so my mpg is between 20 and 35mpg in cash terms. It is the first v12 etype to run fully sequential fuel injection, for both lpg and petrol, with distributorless ignition (similar to EDIS, but controlled by MS).

As the MS hardware supports only 8 cylinders, I built my own elctronics to run the 24 low impedance injectors, so the "cost" is much more than just the MS unit. Although I only spent approximately ?1500 on parts for fuel injection and another ?1500 on lpg components, I also spent a huge number of hours designing and building parts from scratch. The largest single expense was making a proper wiring harness. I estimate at least 200 metres of wiring has gone into the car. Be aware that the legislation for lpg conversion is different in different jusrisfictions in the EU.

Mapping is relatively straightforward, as Tunerstudio has autotune features which use a wideband lambda sensor as input. I have not finished tinkering with the fuelling and ignition settings to date.

There are a lot of custom made parts on my car so this has not been a trivial exercise. Philip Lochner's car (now sold) was technically far simpler MS2 (rather than MS3), being batch fired with a standard HE engine. This car returned some 22mpg on long runs.

kind regards
Marek

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Woolfi
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#9

Post by Woolfi » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:01 pm

My EV12 has a 6,0 Liter with a 2.88 rear axle and a 5-gear Getrag returns 24,5 mpg on a long run last weekend.
The car has 4 Strombergs carbes with 4 "taylor made" needles and is running with Lambda 1.05 - 1,1 (AFR 16:1), measured with a lambda meter from innovate in the car. Also it has a vaccum- box at the dizzy, adding up to 14 degree ignition time more early at part throttle.
The injected car would have a lower gas consumption if it would have also the 2,88 axle and a 5-gear box (1:0,81).
I believe that an long runs the gas consumption is simmilar to an injected EV12. In the city there should be a bigger difference in gas consumtion of an injected and a normal EV12.
Also I believe, that the torque of this motor with 4 carbs between 2000 and 4000 rpm is higher than the torque of this motor with the injection. Above roundabout 4000 rpm the injected motor should have a higher torque.
I am not dreaming and have done some test very carefully.
Regards Wolfgang Gatza

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