Fuel injection

[mgcjag]

Hi All.....were there any S3 with factory fuel injection... i was at an auction today looking at a S3, there were 3 other guys looking...one said its a US car as it had carbs, i said they all had carbs as far as i knew.......he then said he used to own a late model that was fuel injected and his boss had the same.....another guy said he used to work for jaguar and that Norman Dewis was his ex father in law.....he also said the later ones were all injected, also on the commemerative last 50 instead of a 4 outlet exhaustthey had a 2 outlet exhaust.....whats your views.. thanks..... Steve

[vee12eman]

Hi Steve.
No matter what you were told, there were no factory fitted S3s with fuel injection. Jaguar tried to release the car with an injection system from AE Brico but they had difficulty getting it all to work and Brico pulled out quite late leaving Jaguar to revert to carbs. There may be cars in existence with an early fit Brico prototype but I doubt it very much. People have fitted later systems from other Jaguars very successfully and because of the factory nature of the kit they fitted they can look very professional or appear as an original fit.
The final 50 cars, known as the commemorative S3 are all carb fitted from the factory but do have two outlets on the exhaust system. Indeed, all later S3s have this, not just the final 50. I can't check the change over number right now but it's a well documented change. Unfortunately the memories of those you were speaking to were just not correct regarding injection,whilst those regarding exhausts were also not quite right.
The historians on the forum may correct me, but I doubt it very much as I am pretty confident in my knowledge in this instance.

Regards,
Simon.

[AussieEtype]

Simon is totally correct - there no original equip fuel injection on production V12 e-types.

Not so sure about his comments on the fan tail though. In 1981 my 1971 series 3 was sporting the twin tail pipe but I have a road report dated Nov 1971 testing a car about the same age as mine and it had the 4 outlet fan.

So I am not sure - I did have it in the back of my mind that they started with the twin outlet - went to the 4 fan outlet for most of the run and reverted back to the twin fan at the end - but I am getting old and forgetful.

On the other hand - my car is a black car with the steel pressed wheels so at some stage in its early life someone might have tried to pass it off as a commemorative version - but would have been hard as my is one of the very first series 3s made and the others of course at the end.

But back to the OP - no production injection vehicles.

Garry

[AussieEtype]

Simon is totally correct - there no original equip fuel injection on production V12 e-types.

Not so sure about his comments on the fan tail though. In 1981 my 1971 series 3 was sporting the twin tail pipe but I have a road report dated Nov 1971 testing a car about the same age as mine and it had the 4 outlet fan.

So I am not sure - I did have it in the back of my mind that they started with the twin outlet - went to the 4 fan outlet for most of the run and reverted back to the twin fan at the end - but I am getting old and forgetful.

On the other hand - my car is a black car with the steel pressed wheels so at some stage in its early life someone might have tried to pass it off as a commemorative version - but would have been hard as my is one of the very first series 3s made and the others of course at the end.

But back to the OP - no production injection vehicles.

Garry

[vee12eman]

Hi again,

As far as the exhaust outlets are concerned, my S3 parts catalogue (original) states, 4 outlet was fitted up to IS51616 or IS74661, whilst the 2 outlet type was fitted thereafter.

Regards

Simon

[mgcjag]

Thanks guys.....i really had to bite my tounge and keep quiet....its hard to argue with someone who said he had one when especialy when hes backed up by an ex jag man....but as i thought it was BS

[Paul Buckley]

Actually, Jaguar did make four EFI S3 E-Types, two roadsters and two coupes, one each of RHD and LHD, and I believe that William Haynes used one of them
as his personal transport.

They were not production cars in the meaning of the word, but they were built by Jaguar, and I know that one of them came up for sale some years ago.

As a matter of interest, I have obtained an XJ12 HE engine from which I have removed the necessary parts in order to convert my S3 to EFI.
I am looking to improve fuel consumption and especially to make cold starting much easier.
All original parts will be retained so that it can be converted back if required.

I have a S3 that was built in December 1971 and it came with a quad fantail.

Cheers, Paul

[Woolfi]

The problem will be, that the mapping for the stock HE-Motor will not fit for the E-type with a slightly different motor. How big the difference is, I can't say. I know a garage owner in Germany, who has done a lot of these conversions. These cars are driving okay, but it was not possible to prgramm the computer for the e-type motor. Cold starting is much better.
It is possible, that a motor with a injection is better, than the same motor with carbs. But the map must be well done. I don't believe, that there is a big difference in power, gas consumption and drivability, if the map is not well fitting to the requirements of the motor.
Regards Wolfgang Gatza

[Paul Buckley]

Hi Wolfgang

The ECU remapping is undertaken by AJ6 Engineering here in the UK.
They are only 30 minutes from me and can supply all sorts of improvement mods for E-Types.
I think the remapping cost is about ?400.

www.jagweb.com/aj6eng

I understand that the V12 engine was actually designed for EFI (as has been mentioned previously) but had to be rehashed for carbs at the last minute.
As it is, an enormous amount of fuel is required on a cold start just to get fuel into the cylinders from the carbs, which are on the other side of the manifolds.
This is all eliminated with EFI, as is all the other stuff concerning fuel management and ignition, the EFI taking care of it all, including the tuning of four carbs!


But I am also installing a five speed box to help with reducing fuel consumption ......

Regards, Paul Buckley

[Woolfi]

Hello Paul !
I know two guys which have EV12 6,0 L (from a '93 limousine) with remapped ECU's from earlier V12 cars. The remapping has be done from AJ6. Two times the result have been a desaster. One car has a very bad (stumbling) iddle and a very high gas consumption. The mixture is much to fat. How can you "remapp" a ECU, if the car has not been controlled on a dyno with a gas analyser ?
In theory the EFI-conversions sound very well. In practice, the results here in Germany, I have checked, have not been so good.
My EV12 has the same 6,0L motor with 4 stromberg carbs and 5gear Getrag and a 2,88er diff. The average gas consumption is roundabout 20mpg. The iddle is perfect , allthough I have only 0,7% up to 1.5% CO and 300 ppm HC. The carb-needles are "bespoken". I have a innovate lambda-gauge in the car and have grinded the original needles, that the mixture is lambda 0,95 - 1 at iddle, lambda 1,05 - 1,1 at part throttle and lambda roundabout 0,90 at full throttle. The drivability is very good. Midrange torque of the carb car was higher than at a EFI-V12 6,0L of a friend. Maybe the map of this competitor was bad.
If (!!!) a EFI is working well, the results are better than a carbed car. But it is a long way to an DIY-EFI, which is running well.
I drove more than 5000 miles last year. How many cold starts had I in 7 month? If you have a lambda-gauge in the car, you can controll adjust the choke very well. But you are right, that the cold-start behaviour of a motor with EFI is better.
Regards Wolfgang Gatza