Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Talk about the E-Type Series 3
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Gravygraham
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#1 Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by Gravygraham » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:11 am

I've got my hands on a Series 3 brochure in which Jaguar are offering a choice of 6 or 12 cylinders. In Peter Crespin's S3 buyers guide there's mention of four series 3's having been built with (experimental?) 6 cyl engines, but this is leaving me wondering why it got into print if the 6 cyl car option was dropped at such an early stage. Can any sages enlighten me?
'72 Series 3 manual coupe, in pale primrose & black, with cww
'61 Land Rover Series 2 petrol 88" in marine blue
'15 Heritage Edition Defender 90
'15 Defender 90

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Simon P
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#2 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by Simon P » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:33 am

There's a bit of a past discussion about it here:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2498

HTH

Simon
1969 S2 FHC - 1R20258

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JJC
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#3 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by JJC » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:15 pm

I drove one of the Series 3 'sixes' in 1973, before I bought my V-12. Same as the 12, in every way, except the motor. Factory used them for a while, then offered them up for sale, simply to get rid of them. Nothing fancy or special, but by now, of course, certainly a collectible piece. All were grey coupes, with red interior.

Pretty car.

John

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#4 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by PeterCrespin » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:30 pm

JJC wrote:I drove one of the Series 3 'sixes' in 1973, before I bought my V-12. Same as the 12, in every way, except the motor. Factory used them for a while, then offered them up for sale, simply to get rid of them. Nothing fancy or special, but by now, of course, certainly a collectible piece. All were grey coupes, with red interior.
Pretty car.
Where does this info come from John? Seems a fairly generous extrapolation from what must have been a limited but enjoyable test-drive. Here's what Jaguar say:

Reading from the factory records, there were six 4.2 Series III E-types. Two are identified as OTS, one is identified as a 2+2 and the other three have no model designation.
[So they weren't all 2+2]

The 2+2 is the only one in Warwick Grey with red.
[Seems an odd thing to have assumed they were all grey John? Unless the salesman told you that?]

The others are red, silver, light blue and light green and one does not have a color record. Except for the Warwick Grey, the colors are all marked "Special" indicating a non-production color. No white.
[I seem to recall there was a white one somewhere back in the UK? Maybe it was the one with no colour recorded?]

Mike Cook the US Archivist says "I remember seeing a 2+2 with a six in it...probably the Gray one because that car was over here for Federal testing."

Factory used them for a while, then offered them up for sale, simply to get rid of them.
Not quite. They only built cars for a reason and pre-production cars were not built to sell. By the time they had fulfilled their function they were usually bent, worn out, non-compliant (built prior to homologation) or of an inferior quality to the finished production versions and not warranted. This still happens today and there was quite a large batch of F-Types here in the US that Jaguar could never and would never sell, only give away to museums or keep for pure track use or events etc.
[I.e. The 6 cyl S3s weren't just used haphazardly for a bit and then flogged to 'get rid of them'. Jag didn't waste money making unsellable cars but did plan their development pathway with itemized experimental and/or homologation cars, each with a specific reason for being built and disposed of. The marketing appraisal ones were probably the nicest and most likely to languish in a dealer somewhere, and slip into private hands, rather than go from the factory to the scrapyard.

Meanwhile, in many fields, promotional campaign literature and photography happen some time before launch. Since the first print runs included the 6 cyl version, we can assume the lead time meant they were signed off and printed before the decision not to proceed with the sixes was taken.

I've often wondered why nobody has reverse-engineered a 6 cyl S3 replica, although with a low power twin carbed engine in the heaviest version of the body, it wouldn't be a rocket ship, especially in auto versions....

All except the Warwick Grey car have "XJ" pre-production chassis numbers. The Grey car has a unique chassis number, 1W70001 BW. All the 12-cylinder cars begin with 1S. Was your 6-cyl try-out an auto?
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 79 S2 XJ12L; 97 XJ6L

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#5 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by JJC » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:35 am

Well that helps..thanks ! Beautiful car, but don't think anyone would spend the money to put a six into a twelve. Never can tell ! I only drove the one, but over the years, did see two more, and the same color combo. Perhaps a re-spray, after all , over 45+ years ago.

John

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#6 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by V12 Epyte » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:01 am

The ex Pete Waterman Car sold at the Duxford auction last week

http://online.handh.co.uk/m/lot-details ... 3Fpage%3D2
1971 Series 3 FHC 2+2 RHD Manual
1971 Series 3 Roadster 2+2 RHD Manual
1986 Rover SD1 Vitesse Twin Plenum

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#7 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by JJC » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:31 am

Well..another day, another version. This one is white, might have been a re-spray, but has the red interior that I saw. Who knows ? Auction company represents it as being the one and only !! Little bit of false advertising there. Oh well. It did have the steel wheels, which as I recall, they all did. No wires. Thanks.

John

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#8 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by TurboScab » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:31 pm

I test-drove a white RHD manual Series 3 2+2 fitted with a 4.2 6 cylinder in March or April, 1976. The car had been advertised in the "Sunday Times" by its owner who lived in Sherburn-in-Elmet near Leeds.

I'm positive it had an emission controlled 6 cylinder as the reason I didn't buy it was that it felt sluggish compared to the Series 2 2+2 I had just sold. I remember the vendor telling me that it was one of 6 Series 3s built by Jaguar with the 6 cylinder engine but I'm afraid I can't remember its year of registration. The asking price was around £1800. I can't now remember what the vendor told me about how he came by it.
Michael

1968 S2 fhc

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#9 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by baganz.sven@web.de » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:25 pm

Sven
'71 S3 coupe LHD manual

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#10 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by V12 Epyte » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:44 pm

The one sold at auction last week was grey in colour.

Also Harry when at E Type UK had a RHD one for sale a number of years ago, probably mentioned on here at the time
1971 Series 3 FHC 2+2 RHD Manual
1971 Series 3 Roadster 2+2 RHD Manual
1986 Rover SD1 Vitesse Twin Plenum

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#11 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by TurboScab » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:42 pm

The ex Pete Waterman car, which sold for £81k at Duxford in November, is now back up for sale at £5 less than £96K. Nice work if you can get it! And the current vendor appears to be misleading potential buyers by explicitly claiming it's the ONLY Series 3 fitted by Jaguar with a 4.2.

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C975503

There's quite a lot of material about which proves that to be wrong. As for me, I know it's wrong because I drove a RHD one as I recounted earlier in this thread.

Hopefully, potential buyers will do their own due diligence.
Michael

1968 S2 fhc

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#12 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by JJC » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:25 pm

Where did this information come from ?? Re-read my note. I drove one that was offered to me for sale.

A degree of disbelief ? Who cares. I drove it, went with the 12....much smoother.

JC

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#13 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by V12 Epyte » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:14 pm

The Six cylinder ex Pete Waterman Series 3 is up for auction again in June at the H&H sale

https://online.handh.co.uk/m/lot-detail ... id%2F86%2F
1971 Series 3 FHC 2+2 RHD Manual
1971 Series 3 Roadster 2+2 RHD Manual
1986 Rover SD1 Vitesse Twin Plenum

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#14 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by JJC » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:35 pm

WOW !!!! That looks EXACTLY like the on I drove back here in the New York city area around 1973. What stuck in my mind was the beautiful bright red interior. I'm sure it has been re-done, but its true to what I remember. Cool car, and an odd-ball for sure, but glad I bought the ots V-12 instead. Lovely car, however.

John

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#15 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by V12 Epyte » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:43 pm

The car appeared at auction again. Guide price £60,000 to £70,000
Bidding stopped finished at £50,000, Car not sold

https://online.handh.co.uk/m/lot-detail ... 3Fpage%3D2


John
1971 Series 3 FHC 2+2 RHD Manual
1971 Series 3 Roadster 2+2 RHD Manual
1986 Rover SD1 Vitesse Twin Plenum

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#16 Re: Series 3 six cylinder cars - what are the facts?

Post by V12 Epyte » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:45 pm

Now on E Bay with more information and history

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1971-Jaguar- ... SwQVpax3mg

John
1971 Series 3 FHC 2+2 RHD Manual
1971 Series 3 Roadster 2+2 RHD Manual
1986 Rover SD1 Vitesse Twin Plenum

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