Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Talk about the E-Type Series 3

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KeithOz
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#1 Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Post by KeithOz » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:18 am

I have a Series 3 fitted with (original) automatic gearbox. I am considering changing to a 5 speed manual box. I am aware of a number of "kits" which are on offer. Just wondering as whether anyone has already gone through the process - tips, hints, do's and don'ts, advice would be most welcome.

Many thanks.

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Gfhug
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#2 Re: Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Post by Gfhug » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:22 am

Keith, I have no experience of 5 speed boxes, but I believe you could easily fit a Manual Overdrive box from another Jaguar (others on here will confirm which) and that may well be a less fraught solution.

Geoff
S2 FHC Light Blue
S2 OTS LHD - RHD full restoration

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jagwit
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#3 Re: Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Post by jagwit » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:52 am

Avoid "The Driven Man's" Solution. I had paid him already and only then found out that his product is basically a rebuilt used box (NOT NEW!!!), and that the propshaft WOULD require modification despite his claims - at the time - that no mods would be required. I did not want to modify any parts that came out the car. Was a big fight to get my money back.

Years before, I bought a Tremec TKO500 kit for my XJS (from Keisler engineering) and that WAS a NEW box - for the same price as TDM kit. Would not advise the 5-sp TREMEC either. Baulks at shifting at rpms higher than 2000 - which only needs to happen when in a serious hurry, but still....
Best Regards
Philip
Jag: 72 E-type V12, 80 XJS (Megasquirt + 5sp manual O/D)
Jensen: 74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + O/D 4sp auto)
Chev: 59 Apache std, 70 C10 (350V8, 700R4)

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vee12eman
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#4 Re: Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Post by vee12eman » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:01 am

Hi Keith,

Most conversions are from Manual 4 speed to 5-speed, auto is a little more difficult, especially with the V12. I did this conversion several years ago and one of the the biggest difficulties was locating a bell housing. As far as I know, there isn’t a conversion using the Auto bell housing and I had to wait until something suitable came up. In my case, a Getrag complete with a special bell housing came up on eBay and I was the lucky winner, for quite a decent price. I had to fabricate my own gear linkage to bring the lever out in the correct place, but it’s not that difficult. I did discover some issues and had to remove the unit to modify it and overcome them, but again, not that difficult when you know how.

The unique thing of my conversion is that my bell housing did not need a spacer to fit between the original (manual) bell housing and the Getrag. The bell housing was made by DJB and is very rare, by all accounts, it’s not that easy to find a suitable Getrag box today either, but they do come up. Mine is the Long style from a 6 cylinder XJS, which will fit a Series 3, just. You could investigate whether an adaptor does exist for the auto bell housing to any gearbox – that may be the starting point and may dictate which gearbox you can fit without great expense.

If you can’t find a bell housing from a manual gearbox without the ‘box attached, then you may have to buy the whole unit and then, either sell the gearbox separately, retain as a spare or consider using the gearbox, but changing the differential. All options will require you fit one of the kits using only the bell housing complete with an adaptor between ‘box and bell, so the manual box will be surplus. I’m not going to get into the debate about which ‘box is best as I only have one experience. I can say that the Getrag first gear is rather wasted on the V12, I can pull away in fifth, easily with minimal requirement to clutch slip, so pulling away in second is easy – indeed first is almost too short and I would not be surprised if 0-60 is just as quick without using first as you have to change so early and lose time in the change.

With that consideration, it may be more economically sensible, and, given the negative reviews of so many five gear units on the forum recently, sensible from an engineering point of view, to stick with Jaguar components by fitting the Jaguar 4-speed with a taller Jaguar differential, such as the 2.88.
Good luck, whatever course you choose. If you do go down the Getrag route, there are several posts from both others and myself to offer guidance, but feel free to contact me by pm to point you in the right direction.

Regards,

Simon
Simon S-Y
Series III FHC

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MarekH
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#5 Re: Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Post by MarekH » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:04 am

Dear Keith,

Have a read of other peoples' experiences in the archives.

The Jag MOD box is a drop in replacement for the manual gearbox on any long wheel base car. As Simon says, finding a manual gearbox bell housing is the hard part.

kind regards
Marek

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jagwit
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#6 Re: Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Post by jagwit » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:08 am

The Jag MOD box is a drop in replacement for the manual gearbox on any long wheel base car.
Link please?
Best Regards
Philip
Jag: 72 E-type V12, 80 XJS (Megasquirt + 5sp manual O/D)
Jensen: 74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + O/D 4sp auto)
Chev: 59 Apache std, 70 C10 (350V8, 700R4)

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MarekH
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#7 Re: Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Post by MarekH » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:21 am

I've got one in my car. The Jag MOD box is exactly the same length as the Jag long tail gearbox and fitted with a short tail top cover, the gear lever comes out in the same place as the manual Jag box does. The gearbox rear mount is exactly in the same place.... etc etc.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_vi ... 1170885932
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_vi ... 1326286185

kind regards
Marek

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jagwit
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#8 Re: Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Post by jagwit » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:28 am

Marek

Is this the std E-type 4sp box that is converted to a 5sp?
Who does this upgrade?
What is the 5th ratio?
Best Regards
Philip
Jag: 72 E-type V12, 80 XJS (Megasquirt + 5sp manual O/D)
Jensen: 74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + O/D 4sp auto)
Chev: 59 Apache std, 70 C10 (350V8, 700R4)

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jivili
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#9 Re: Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Post by jivili » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:12 pm

Hi
I have just completed a manual to 5 speed conversion using a getrag 265 from an xj with a conversion spacer ring
If I was to do the same conversion again I would be tempted to fit an e type four speed manual together with a 2.88 diff instead of a 5 speed.
Straight swap and less hassle
Regards
Dean

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PeterCrespin
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#10 Re: Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Post by PeterCrespin » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:11 pm

Dean is dead right. With a 2.88 diff the cruising revs in top are almost identical to the 3,54,diff with a Getrag or other overdrive fifth. A V12 with even a 2.88/4-speed setup is a far livelier car than an auto and easily aboe to carry the gearing.

Of course, I would say that because I've got the bell, gearbox and pedal box available ready to go in one if anyone wants to make me an offer...

Pete
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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Whitact
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#11 Re: Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Post by Whitact » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:13 pm

Keith,
One thing to be aware of is that the shape of the tunnel in the automatic cars is wider than in the manual version. After conversion there is no place for your foot beside the clutch pedal, it has to go underneath when not changing gear. However you soon get used to it. Both my S3s are conversions with ETF five speed boxes. I kept the 3.07 diff which results in 35 mph/1000rpm and 20+ mpg on a run. Whichever route you choose for the conversion it will totally transform the driving experience.
Cheers
Adrian Turner
S3 OTS & FHC
S1 FHC
XK140 FHC

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KeithOz
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#12 Re: Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Post by KeithOz » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:27 am

Hi Adrian,
Many thanks for the post. It is certainly more comforting to know that somebody else has been down this road already - twice! ETF seem to be the only supplier of the 5 speed kits at the moment (5speeds and XKsUnlimited are no longer supplying the auto-manual conversion kits), they are also the most expensive!
So far I have received very positive and prompt responses from Urik at ETF. Any further advice/warnings regarding fitting?
Regards,
Keith

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PeterCrespin
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#13 Re: Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Post by PeterCrespin » Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:45 pm

What is going to be your predominant driving terrain? Open highway or two lane winding/city driving? You can optimise for either with 4 speeds if the cost of 5-speeds seems expensive.

Time spent changing gear is lost acceleration. :-)

Standard Jag transmissions are plentiful.

Pete
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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Whitact
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#14 Re: Automatic to manual gearbox conversion

Post by Whitact » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:19 am

Keith,
If you go with ETF I don't think you will have any problems. From my experience Uryk is a good guy to deal with. The Evolution E-Types FB page gives an idea just how meticulous he is.
Whichever route you decide bear in mind just how heavy the BW box is, very difficult to manage single handed. The transmission cooling circuit in the radiator will need to be blanked off, which is easy enough to do. Finally if you have SU carbs in place of Strombergs Burlen supply an adaptor to avoid the clutch master cylinder fouling the rear RH carb.
Cheers,
Adrian Turner
S3 OTS & FHC
S1 FHC
XK140 FHC

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