Throttle Linkages Upgrade, not Mangoletsi

For the enthusiast upgrading their E-Type

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288gto
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Throttle Linkages Upgrade, not Mangoletsi

#1

Postby 288gto » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:54 pm

Building up the throttle linkages and refitting the carbs I became increasingly frustrated with the operation of the various individual linkages and especially the three that connect the rotational movement of the shaft below the inlet manifold to the arms on the throttle spindles.

Until I fitted the last linkage on the bulkhead from the inner fulcrum to the rod that goes from the bulkhead to the inlet manifold everything on the bulkhead side of things worked fine. Likewise the individual throttles on the carbs worked fine until you fitted the three small rods and clips that join them to the rotating main shaft on the inlet manifold. I spent two weekends of adjusting, stripping and adjusting again to no avail. I even put more springs on to the point that pressing the brake pedal was easier :lol:

In the end and if I'm honest inspired by a friends Mangoletsi set up, removed all the linkages that had the 90 degree bends and clips. I replaced them with small rose joints connected by threaded bar and a lock nut.
The bulkhead linkage I cut the ends off and tapped the rod to accept female rose joints.

Every individual linkage is now adjustable and it has transformed the movement into the silky smooth operation it should be. I was surprised that initially even with just one spring all three throttles snapped shut. Effectively the rod ends allow for any slight misalignment that the arms incur as they go through their various arcs.
Throttle response is instant with no play at all and the height of the pedal adjustable.

Total cost of the mod, less than £45.

Hopefully the pics explain themselves.

Why didn't I just buy the Mangoletsi upgrade? Well I'd already purchased stainless RHD linkages.

Image

Image


Simon

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265bhp
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Re: Throttle Linkages Upgrade, not Mangoletsi

#2

Postby 265bhp » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:18 pm

Looks elegant Simon...could you share more pictures and details of the whole set up please...?
Thanks
Jonathan
1963 3.8 FHC in slow restoration mode

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Re: Throttle Linkages Upgrade, not Mangoletsi

#3

Postby mgcjag » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:04 am

Great job Simon very tidy... Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2

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Re: Throttle Linkages Upgrade, not Mangoletsi

#4

Postby andrewh » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:27 am

it looks great Simon, a really professional job . I have always wondered why people go for a Mangoletsi set up as I cannot see what the matter with the original is. My throttle response seems very good, idling is good and steady and there appears to be no slack. I also bought the stainless steel kit , so perhaps thats why mine is good?
1962 3.8 Series One FHC

http://etype860897.blogspot.com/

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Re: Throttle Linkages Upgrade, not Mangoletsi

#5

Postby Gfhug » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:04 pm

Simon, that looks every bit as good as you described it to me :yellow:
I've not heard of the stainless steel kit, where do you get them, please?

Geoff
S2 FHC Light Blue

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Re: Throttle Linkages Upgrade, not Mangoletsi

#6

Postby andrewh » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:12 pm

1962 3.8 Series One FHC

http://etype860897.blogspot.com/

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288gto
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Re: Throttle Linkages Upgrade, not Mangoletsi

#7

Postby 288gto » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:18 pm

Thanks for the kind comments chaps.

Jonathan, I"ll try and post more pics and details when I get a minute.

Andrew, I too happen to prefer the look of the rods, fulcrums and rotating shafts and looking at the" Competition" pics in the Knowledge Base so did a lot of people who raced the cars, whether fitted with SU carbs. Webers or Injection. I figure if it's good enough for them, it will do for me :bigrin:

Geoff, great to chat again. As Andrew mentioned, you can get the bulkhead linkages from SC Parts and also... http://www.ajautocraft.co.uk/partsspecials.htm

As I say when I get a minute, I will post a few more pics a list of parts and a brief how to.

Definitely something to consider before jumping into purchasing a Mangoletsi set up if you have a stiff or sticking throttle and a big spring on every rod. Or perhaps you've resorted to stronger or shorter springs, you have two inches of travel on the pedal before the revs rise, or your pedal sits too high/low.

This is not intended as a criticism of the beautifully engineered Mangoletsi set up, it is merely intended as an alternative.

Simon

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Re: Throttle Linkages Upgrade, not Mangoletsi

#8

Postby Heuer » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:07 pm

andrewh wrote: I have always wondered why people go for a Mangoletsi set up as I cannot see what the matter with the original is. My throttle response seems very good, idling is good and steady and there appears to be no slack. I also bought the stainless steel kit , so perhaps that's why mine is good?

The whole idea of the Mangoletsi conversion is to decouple the throttle control between the engine and bulkhead. The stock setup is such that as the engine twists on its mounts (due to torque) the throttle moves because the bulkhead remains stationary. After a spirited drive you may notice that when you come to a halt the revs will remain high until you blip the throttle. Also as you attack corners, again in a spirited manner, the engine moves relative to the bulkhead to which the linkage is attached thus increasing or deceasing throttle without your input. It was a crazy system and I cannot understand why Jaguar stuck with it.

The stainless linkage is no better than the original - it is only made out of s/s because it is cheaper than cadmium plated mild steel. It is also metric so you need a suitable spanner if you ever need to make adjustments on the road.

I have done many thousands of miles with the Mangoletsi system and I have to say it is probably the best upgrade you can make to an E-Type bar none. The secret is in the cable not the rose joints!
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

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Re: Throttle Linkages Upgrade, not Mangoletsi

#9

Postby andrewh » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:30 pm

Ah, thank you for the explanation David. Yes I realise the SS would be no better as its the same design, I was assuming that original setups had worn , whereas the new one would be , well new.
I am astounded that you can notice a movement in the engine relative to the throttle linkage fixed to the bulkhead. Perhaps you need new engine mounts and a correctly adjusted rear engine link :bigrin:
No seriously, I have noticed, sometimes engine revs remains high after a drive, and sometimes not, but have put this down to carburettor tune rather than linkage "winding up" so to speak. Where is the tension taken then, and why does this not release when the engine returns to its correct alignment prior to a blip? I would have to drive one to perhaps be able to experience any difference but given my preference for originality, on the 3.8, I would be unlikely to fit it. I am struggling with a desire to fit a 123 tune vs originality, so the Mangoletsi would not appeal to me. Interesting though, I always thought it was a sort of superferlous, upgrade that looked more impressive than it was so to speak.
1962 3.8 Series One FHC

http://etype860897.blogspot.com/

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Re: Throttle Linkages Upgrade, not Mangoletsi

#10

Postby 288gto » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:02 pm

David,
I can see the advantages of the cables and having seen it on a friends car, the Mangoletsi set up is a lovely bit of engineering.

Interestingly as regards your "spirited driving" observations, what I did notice when trying to set up the linkages, was that the more you opened the carbs to full throttle position, the more they tried to stick, specifically as they came near to the closed position. This didn't happen if I only moved them to half throttle and released them.
Bearing in mind this was all done without the engine running.
Every time I thought I had got it working smoothly, repeated testing caused them to stick again. It seemed that repeated full throttle operation somehow compounded the problem.

This is only my own experience of my own car and does not mean it is the case for all. What is interesting is that it seems to follow your description.

Purely out of curiosity, I would be interested to know exactly what it is about the movement of the engine that causes the sticking, especially once the car has come to a rest.

Again out of curiosity, did any of the competition cars adopt the cable approach or is this a relatively new thing. I couldn't find any pics other than the Mangoletsi ones.

Unfortunately, I'm a bit off the "spirited driving" stage of the restoration so can't give you a final evaluation. When it is finished, I'll let you drive it David for a comparison, how's that? :swerve:

Simon

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