Fuel filter (Glass Bowl)

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mgcjag
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#1 Fuel filter (Glass Bowl)

Post by mgcjag » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:22 am

Hi All....Thought i would start a discussion on the Glass Bowl filter, following on from problems that Frank has had with his fuel system here http://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12446
The glass bowl/ filter was designed to take fuel through the bowl lid and down the center of the filter into the glass bowl....particals would be left in the bowl then filtered through the element towards the carbs..early cars had a wire gauze type element followed by a donut shaped stone type then a paper element...all of these allowed the "dirty"fuel to pass directly into the bowl befor being filtered....the advantage being a quick look into the bowl for debris...............As far as im aware the only filter widely available is C28080...a paper element but with a metal base and a spring to hold it in the bowl.....this now works in reverse....fuel comes into the filter but because of the metal base cannot pass uninterupted into the bowl...instead it passes through the element leaving any debris inside the filter unsean.....clean fuel goes into the bowl and to the carbs....
Useing this canister type filter therefore can cause a problem by being blocked with no visable sign by looking into the glass bowl.......thanks for reading and over to you.....
Edit.....was the canister type used on later cars and the i/p..o/p reversed to the glass bowl so that unfiltered fuel could be seen in through the glass......Steve

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Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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paulsco
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#2 Re: Fuel filter (Glass Bowl)

Post by paulsco » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:35 am

Hi Steve,

Are you saying that you dont think the original gauze type filter is still available?
SNG sell it under part 7299:
https://www.sngbarratt.com/uk/#!/Englis ... dbacfac8bc

Paul
65 Series 1 FHC, 68 Jaguar 340

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#3 Re: Fuel filter (Glass Bowl)

Post by mgcjag » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:45 am

Hi Paul....no not saying that the gauze type isnt available....all types are available if you search......iv started tbe thread to discuss how the glass bowl actually was designed to work....and with the canister type filter offered by most of the usual suppliers the glass filter unit works in reverse with sedement held inside the canister rather than being visable in the bowl....Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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Bob.
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#4 Re: Fuel filter (Glass Bowl)

Post by Bob. » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:56 pm

The canister type filter retained by a spring was introduced part way through S3 production, but at the same time the glass bowl was replaced by a metal container, so debris was no longer visible anyway. (The filter unit had already been moved to the boot and been hidden behind a steel guard).

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To return the original functionality of a glass bowl type, but fitted with a canister filter, swapping the inlet and outlet pipe connections has previously been suggested.
Bob
'71 S3

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#5 Re: Fuel filter (Glass Bowl)

Post by JulianBarratt » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:56 pm

Hi Steve,
As requested, i have spoken to our head technician and this is our take on these filters:

We (and Jaguar) offer the element filter as a replacement to the original cleanable gauze filter.
With an original gauze fitted (7299), the fuel from the tank enters the bowl and is filtered –ish by the gauze and the trapped particles remain in the bowl and are visible through the glass.
The replacement paper element will retro fit to original and later reverse flow filter bodies. It has far superior filtering properties and with no requirement for cleaning, makes service replacement easier and quicker.
The minor issue that, in earlier applications, any particles are trapped within the element body and cannot be viewed is more than made up for by better filtering and easier maintenance.


Hope that this helps
MD at SNG Barratt Group
Enthusiastic owner/driver of a couple of complete E-types as well as a warehouse or two of parts...

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#6 Re: Fuel filter (Glass Bowl)

Post by PeterCrespin » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:32 am

Thanks Julian. I agree the issue is not critical in normal circumstances but your mention of Jaguar agreeing made me recall the same issue when I discussed it with them.

I was visiting the Classic workshops, just before they moved to Ryton and was chatting to Paul Ridges (?). They were obviously going for volume and I commented that it would be a challenge to raise the expertise and insight of the workforce rapidly to his level and thereby maintain quality whilst increasing throughput. They were finishing off a car and I said as an example that they presumably didn’t realise the fuel filter issue. Paul was unaware of the change in flow and whilst we agreed it wasn’t a huge deal in a spotless new fuel system, it was perhaps a pity not to use the glass bowl as designed and as done by Jaguar themselves. The correct elements are readily available from several makers and cheap as chips.

The doughnut shape even shows up in the 1966 J30 2+2 spares book. He was wondering how come he’d never seen one so I said “Maybe that has one?” pointing to a rough-ish S2 FHC they’d just imported. We lifted the bonnet and sure enough the correct filter was fitted. At that point I got the feeling he was converted, since their whole USP was that they were uniquely placed to ensure factory-perfect spec.

There are plenty of times we have to settle for non-original for reasons of practicality or feasibility, and Barratts of course do a stellar job of re-manufacturing so many unobtainable bits. It just seems a bit odd to deviate on this part, given that, though rare, it does occasionally hide an issue, as happened with Frank here.

Anyway, nice to chat and all the best.

Pete
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 79 S2 XJ12L; 97 XJ6L

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#7 Re: Fuel filter (Glass Bowl)

Post by mgcjag » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:35 am

Thanks.Julian & Peter for your input.....just to add a bit more info here are "doughnut" & paper type that should filter fuel in the correct direction to be able to view debris on the outside of the filter or in the glass bowl.... both come under the part number AC Delco GF 124 and can be easily found if you google search but unfortunatly not so easy to obtain in the UK......or do you know a supplier and alternative part No.....edit...WIX 33034 is the paper type..available in UK.....This post by Trondvo has covered filter options in the past http://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7732 Steve

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#8 Re: Fuel filter (Glass Bowl)

Post by 44DHR » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:25 am

Steve,
I think the AC Delco part number is GF124, not DF124.
As you say both types come up under the same number, but the current type being offered by most Motor Factors is the paper type, with the correct outlet holes on the top surface.
I’m off to the US in a couple of weeks so will be popping into O’Reilly’s - one of the big US Auto Parts suppliers - to bring a few back !
Regards,
Dave
Dave Rose
1967 Series 1 4.2 FHC

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#9 Re: Fuel filter (Glass Bowl)

Post by mgcjag » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:58 pm

Hi Dave..well spotted...typo...just corrected it....Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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#10 Re: Fuel filter (Glass Bowl)

Post by Vonkie » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:01 pm

Thanks so much Steve for starting this thread, and Julian for giving me the SNGB input.

This is all very interesting. It makes sense to me that, especially for one in my situation, constantly wondering how clean the fuel system is and whether (or when) it will block up again, the design entailing the dirty fuel showing in the glass bowl before being filtered, rather than the clean fuel showing in the glass bowl after being filtered, gives the glass bowl its utility. Against that, Julian confirms the apparent going wisdom that the concertina unit is a better filter.

I have an extra disposable filter introduced at the back, just after the pump, and it gets opened and replaced periodically to see what the fuel looks like that is on its way to the glass bowl. As long as I have this checked frequently enough, and in between as owner keep my own eye on the state of the glass bowl, I should be able to see when a new stoppage is threatened. I fear the likely source of the rusty sand is the pipes somewhere, which may make this an ongoing thing, unless the pipes get replaced - which feels a tad radical for now.

I did not know that SNGB still supplied the gauze filter. For now, I'll stick with the cconcertina paper canister units sold for the Series 1, and keep replacing the extra back filter every so often, until the next tank flush and lining (hopefully some years in the future).

She is currently undergoing a paint repair and detailing job, and I have had serious withdrawals this weekend.

This is such a great forum.

Cheers guys
Frank
Frank
1963 3.8 FHC

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#11 Re: Fuel filter (Glass Bowl)

Post by 64etype » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:43 pm

FYI. The top of the WIX filter element contacts the raised boss around the short "pipe" in the aluminum casting before the outer radius of the filter reaches the flange for the gasket/seal. As of two years ago, the seal that was included in the WIX packaging was too thin to take up the resultant gap around the outer radius, thereby allowing unfiltered fuel to escape through that gap. The thicker seal from one of the usual Jaguar suppliers works fine...or stack several WIX filters. There are unconfirmed reports that WIX have recently begun to include a thicker seal. Best check before buttoning it up.
Eric

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#12 Re: Fuel filter (Glass Bowl)

Post by JJC » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:58 pm

Hi Frank: I use an extra disposable in-line filter in the back also. The clear plastic Fram G-3 works great. Easy to keep an eye on things, and usually available for less then $3.00

JJ

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