Chassis 850062

[chrisfell]

Horror as judges in a concours competition knock 2 points off the perfect 100 when they discover the tyres no longer have the original air in them.

[abowie]

[tinworm]

Is that an accurate Anorak ? What about the fur trim ? LOL.

Barrie

[Philk]

Looking further into the car's history, it was auctioned earlier in 2016.

https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/eve ... chassis-62

The photos there provide some further insights on the work previously performed on the car.

[mgcjag]

I see nothing remotly "Anorach" in this discussion.....We are an E type forum and any Etype advertised for sale will come in for scrutiny if not advertised accuratly......The wording in the Auctioneers write up is misleading " restored to totally original condition" and a potential purchaser who is just buying on the"reputation" of the seller and celebrity of the owner would i think be very dissapointed if he read this thread after purchase....lets hope he knows all differences prior ......Steve

[1954Etype]

Does that head look as though it has been re-stamped?

[Heuer]

I thought that Angus (especially after our conversation yesterday ). It is rare for the paint to be so thick that it makes reading the head number difficult as it was deeply stamped. Anyone have access to photos of the head for the 2016 auction? I will do some digging.

From the 2016 auction catalogue:

" In the mid to late 1970s by its orginal owner, it appears to have benefitted from a significant restoration both mechanically and bodily. At this point, we can see from accompanying invoices, that what we believe was the original 'outside lock' bonnet was replaced with a slightly later one by its owner at the time."

It was again sympathetically restored in the 1990s, which included another full engine rebuild. More recently under its current ownership, the car has been subject to yet more renovation to safeguard this rare car for the future. This considerate restoration took place over a period of 18 months and consisted of much bodywork including a further repaint in its current Carmen red.


On the other hand:
"However while missing some of the more obvious early features the car retains not only the much revered 'flat floor' but in fact a whole myriad of other specific very early details including the split-link throttle linkage, review mirror amongst other little ques."

Damn, those rear view mirrors are rarer than hen's teeth!

[steve3.8]

Does that head look as though it has been re-stamped?

Hmm ,controversial but true i think Angus , in 2016 the 7 had a curved back and the other numbers have differences





edit--2016 Block stamping

[tinworm]

Interesting previous sale write up sent by Philk - obviously the car had been personalised with upside down tailpipes and ashtray bracket. Also the auctioneer's line "the revered flat floor" found some mirth in my house. My '61 flat floor coupe was fine - but not 'revered' .
So what do we know so far-
- new bonnet in the '70's and possibly replacement later 3.8 body , including filler box/lid . Replacement later style windscreen chrome trim from the 80's or 90's Dash top trimmed with standard 'thick' kit or changed altogether. Seats retrimmed or changed to black along with rest of the interior. Home made boot mats in black.
So to end up with the car as it is today a lot has been changed - including body modifications as mentioned by Clive.


Just editing this as Steve posted while I was typing - could be a replacement head too.

All in all I thought £140K was a lot for a car in very ordinary condition and not particularly early either.
A lot of parts had to be dumped .

Barrie

[Heuer]

Some enhanced photos of the cylinder head (click to expand):

2016:
You can see another number under the new one - specifically between the 6 and 9. Also notice the dash is just a straight line whereas the Factory always used the number 1 on its side for that. Also the roughness of the casting has been smoothed out in that area by the grinding away of the original head number:


The block is correctly stamped - note the horizontal 1:


2020:
The orange paint over the number looks as if it has been put on with a knife and that part of the block has now become a very rough looking cast, possibly to occlude what is underneath using filler:


If the car been described correctly (new bonnet, new head, lots of bodywork, good honest usable car) then there would be no perceived attempt to mislead potential buyers. As enthusiastic and experienced experts of the E-Type it is beholding to us to cast shade where it is due.

[tinworm]

Yes nicely put David.

Barrie

[Robbiee]

This is all interesting
They have at least made the car look good
The head number stamping does look a bit wrong !

When it comes to identification of a car it seems the only thing that is almost impossible to “forge” is the handwritten body number.
My ‘62 RHD OTS had an obliterated chassis number due to very ancient resto ...however David J suggested looking for the body number which I found handwritten above the speedo on the back of the dash (also on the other side ) along with the colour and interior colour(Tan)
The original ODG paint was untouched behind the dash which had never been removed. Jaguar heritage certainly put a lot of trust in the body number and gave me a certificate based on this PLUS engine/head/gearbox
Clearly I’ve had to do a lot of lower bodywork repair/replacement but otherwise I think it could probably be called as original (but restored) as any?
Robbie

[Heuer]

Correct Robbie, you have done due diligence, researched your car and honestly describe its condition - it would be valued accordingly and you and any future buyer could sleep well at night. With 850062 there appears to have been an attempt to recreate rather than restore.

[tinworm]

Robbiee - on my Dec '61 LHD coupe written on the back of the dash was 1362 - while the body plate said V1374 so we came to the conclusion the body was changed on the production line possibly due to damage .It was Gunmetal grey and had never been anything else.

Barrie

[Robbiee]

Interesting!
I think that did happen to a few!
It’s certainly a useful little number!

I think it’s always best to be candid about the history when buying/selling. We’re a bit like this in medicine(my trade). Always tell the patient what has happened and what you have done to correct it ...so much better than attempting to hide things. Honesty is the best policy
Robbie

[rswaffie]

I found this on mine, a 63 fhc in OGS with tan trim.
Behind the rear hatch trim was the body number in yellow crayon, which matched the body tag and ID plate/cert.





However, behind the dash was the same number and ‘tan’, but also crossed out was another body number with ‘red’.

[tinworm]

So we must assume the crossed out info could have been due to a reassignment on the line too Richard

Barrie

[chrisfell]

Curious, one matching number on a cylinder head, but apparently two different cylinder heads. One of them is surely a ringer. From being all anorachy, this thread has suddenly taken on the far more interesting mantle of an archaeological exposé. Anyone feel like they want to cause some mischief by asking Silverstone Auctions to clarify?

[tinworm]

I did that once Chris with a 4.2 roadster with an engine which had a number range from 2+2 production which they had for sale. Never got a satisfactory reply. I don't even know if that happened for real on the production line. Others may know.

Barrie

[mgcjag]

I also contacted Silverstone auctions when a Replica C type they were selling had the reg number of an xj6....registered with dvla as an xj6.......their answer was that its not up to them to correctly prove the identity of the vehicle they are selling.....Steve