1st and 2nd gears locked

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cooper66
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#1 1st and 2nd gears locked

Post by cooper66 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:16 am

Hello Genlemen,

On my freshly rebuilt S1 65 4.2 i have a strange issue. Background, engine, clutch and gearbox new (approx 200km...). With this very hot weather arround 35/40, after 50/60km drive when gearbox oil is hot, it becomes impossible to select 1st and 2nd gear while reverse and 3rd/4th continue to be perfect. Engine is at normal operating temperature, gearbox is running with EP90, and before it locks 1st/2nd selection is very smooth.

I investigated and this is hoepfully not coming from the synchromesh but from selector itself. By removing the gearbox top cover I discover that when hot the striking gear of 1st and 2nd becomes impossible to move. After 1/2 min it come back to normal ... :shrug:

Any idea ?
Pierre

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cooper66
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#2 Re: 1st and 2nd gears locked

Post by cooper66 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:05 pm

Hello,

issue still not solved, here is a video showing the mecanism after 1st/2nd are becoming "locked". Any idea ?



clutch is working properly as 3/4th gears and reverse are operating normally.
Pierre

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angelw
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#3 Re: 1st and 2nd gears locked

Post by angelw » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:03 pm

Pierre Wrote:
I investigated and this is hoepfully not coming from the synchromesh but from selector itself. By removing the gearbox top cover I discover that when hot the striking gear of 1st and 2nd becomes impossible to move. After 1/2 min it come back to normal ...
Hello Pierre,
If you're saying that the 1st/2nd Gear Selector Rod can't be moved in the Top Cover with the Top Cover removed, then that would rule out the Synchro Hubs. In your video, slight movement of the 1st/2nd Gear Selector Rod can be seen, but seems to come to an abrupt stop in both directions; accordingly, the Selector Rod can't be seizing in its respective bores in the Top Cover. Only that either 3rd/4th, or Reverse can be selected during the time when 1st/2nd is jammed, it would be a reasonable assumption to make that the Lockout ball and rod mechanism at the front of the Top Cover is the cause.

Can the issue be replicated by heating the Top Cover (whilst its removed from the Gearbox) with a Hot Air Gun. If so, I would remove the two Ball Bearings and Rod that make up the Lockout Mechanism and see if the issue still occurs when you replicate the condition that causes movement of the 1st/2nd Gear Selector Rod to be inhibited. If the problem disappears with the Lockout Mechanism removed, then you have a more focused area to investigate.

Regards,

Bill

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cooper66
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#4 Re: 1st and 2nd gears locked

Post by cooper66 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:25 pm

Hi Bill, thanks for the advice. The ball bearing you mention is the following element (n°20) i guess ?

I will make the test tonight
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Capture d’écran 2020-09-14 à 20.20.42.png
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Pierre

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angelw
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#5 Re: 1st and 2nd gears locked

Post by angelw » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:35 pm

Pierre Wrote:
The ball bearing you mention is the following element (n°20) i guess ?
Hello Pierre,
Yes, there are two and the small rod that should be between them.

Regards,

Bill

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PeterCrespin
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#6 Re: 1st and 2nd gears locked

Post by PeterCrespin » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:02 am

Testing when stationary is not the best check, because you can sometimes get gears jamming in a way that doesn't happen if you spin the cluster a little. Even having someone turn a back wheel with both in the air, can be enough to overcome baulking. However, you report this happening during driving, so it is unlikely to be that, and it normally only happens on one gear change rather then an opposite pair. I agree there may be an interlock ball or pin issue. Odd though...
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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cooper66
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#7 Re: 1st and 2nd gears locked

Post by cooper66 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:30 pm

Thanks for the advice, I take it back to the workshop for an overall check of the mechanism, let's wait friday !
Pierre

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cooper66
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#8 Re: 1st and 2nd gears locked

Post by cooper66 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:25 pm

Gentlemen, you were right, it was the ball bearing ... everything is ok now I did 400km and the gearbox is perfect :smile:

Topic closed.
Pierre

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Heuer
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#9 Re: 1st and 2nd gears locked

Post by Heuer » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:04 am

Thanks for the feedback! Most refreshing to have confirmation of a fix as some posters just 'hit and run'.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

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cooper66
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#10 Re: 1st and 2nd gears locked

Post by cooper66 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:59 pm

This forum is a gold mine, full of relevant informations, happy to contribute.
Pierre

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