Valuation.

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Pbirty
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#1 Valuation.

Post by Pbirty » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:32 pm

Hello. I'm looking for advice on getting my 1962 3.8 fhc lhd valued for insurance and sale value. I live near Blackburn Lancashire. Thanks in advance Paul

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mgcjag
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#2 Re: Valuation.

Post by mgcjag » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:40 pm

Hi Paul....post a few photos and details of condition....im sure you will get plenty of replies.......best advice i can give is that you know the true condition of your car...search the web and work out how much it would cost you to to replace it with the same model and in the same condition...thats its insurance value......then for a sale value what are similar cars selling for.....Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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#3 Re: Valuation.

Post by Pbirty » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:15 pm

Hello Steve. Thanks for the reply. I will try and post some pictures when I figure it out. I have quite a few but they are to big a file to upload on here. I have had a look at similar cars but the price varies quite alot. It's a number matching car that has undergone a full restoration over the last 10 years. It's just recently been for a full retrim in its original colour at Aldridge trimmers in Wolverhampton. I have just had it motd ready to register it here. The cars serial number is 887249. Its a very nice example with very few things jobs left to make it perfect.

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#4 Re: Valuation.

Post by mgcjag » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:48 pm

Hi Paul...No details of your car on http://www.xkedata.com/cars/detail/?car=887249 well worth you putting it on there...it your not awere of the site have a look through...lots of usefull information....many on this forum have their cars on there....Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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Gfhug
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#5 Re: Valuation.

Post by Gfhug » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:51 pm

Various clubs (JEC, JDC, E Type) will give insurance valuations.

Geoff
S2 FHC Light Blue

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#6 Re: Valuation.

Post by chrisfell » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:24 pm

Chris '67 S1 2+2

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#7 Re: Valuation.

Post by Tom W » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:52 am

I don’t believe all of Hagerty’s values. By their description of condition, many aspect of my car should fall into the “fair” category, but I defy anyone to find any FHC for under £27k, let alone one that could be driven home without issue. The valuation for “good” is a bit closer to the mark at £44900, but again I think you’d be doing well to buy any usable registered FHC for sale for that in the UK. “Excellent” and “concours” valuations do seem more realistic for a S2 FHC.
Tom
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#8 Re: Valuation.

Post by Philk » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:35 am

Tom W wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:52 am
I don’t believe all of Hagerty’s values.
Fully agree.... that is the challenge of a general tool spanning the classic car market. Turning to our particular cars, as everyone knows, there is a considerable difference in valuation between a car that is fully matching numbers and one that is not. As such, a "concours" non matching car will always be worth less than a matching numbers one. Ditto for the other categories they list.

From what I can see, for S1 Roadsters, they are at least £20K to £40K out from what decent cars are selling for in the market place.
Phil
1964 S1 3.8 OTS

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#9 Re: Valuation.

Post by Tom W » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:15 am

E-types don’t seem to neatly fall into the condition categories either. Most are either shiny and well presented, or complete restoration projects. You see very few tatty but perfectly usable cars. Of the shiny ones, some when viewed closer aren’t so great, probably have some nasty bits lurking underneath the paint and probably need as much, if not more work than the restoration projects. Unless something is concours, or an obvious project, it’s probably quite tricky to see which category something should sit in without knowing what’s underneath.

I also find the concept of rising value based largely on condition slightly out dated. It makes no allowance for patina and originality, both of which people place value on. Personally, I’d rather have original paint and interior that presents well, but looks like it’s a 50 year old car, than everything freshly restored. It’s only got its original paint once, but it can be resprayed back to shiny any time.
Tom
1970 S2 FHC

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#10 Re: Valuation.

Post by Pbirty » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:28 am

Good morning thanks for your replys. I have checked some various valuation sites but wasn't that impressed with the jump in price difference from one band to another. I would really prefer paying someone who knows exactly what there looking at to give me a more exact figure. Also some sound advice on what does let it down to get the best sale price out of the car. I do want to put the car up for sale soon so but don't want to put it up too cheap or too expensive. Cheers Paul

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#11 Re: Valuation.

Post by chrisfell » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:38 am

Resources such as Hagerty are useful guides. Their methodology is sound, but in a thin market such as that for the remaining 25,000 or so E-Types the valuations are never going to be as reliable as those for (say) 911s, of which many more than 72,000 were made. (It is said that the 1millionth 911 was produced in 2017). A few years ago some aberrant prices moved E-Type valuations up quite a bit. Some new owners entered the market convinced they were buying fast appreciating assets. They weren’t. They bought at the peak of the market. Quite a few cars may find their way back onto the market soon as the hot money investors look for alternative asset classes.

An interesting discussion is ongoing on J-L regarding the perceived lack of interest of the younger generation in our cars. Understandable, when one realises that for generation X and the millennials, their earliest experiences with E-Types would have been of unreliable rust-buckets owned by the more disreputable of neighbours or the odd uncle who lived alone (that’s me, BTW). Our generations (and I’m speaking generally here, knowing that many do not fit this profile) are baby-boomers, and a few years either side. We recall the impact of the car’s launch in 1961. That’s what piques our interest. We are the engine of the market for E-Types. When we die out that interest will wane, the market will fade, valuations will find a lower base level.

This process is already beginning. Several long term E-Type owners I know have sold up in recent years, receiving much more for their cars than they thought was possible. £210k for a very nice individually modified 67 OTS that had been both raced (track days) and rallied (continental tours), for example. Try finding that valuation on Hagerty! Several other friends talk of their car as part of their pension pots, clearly intending to sell soon.

I know my car is only worth what someone else will pay for it should I wish to sell. For all other reasons, including insurance valuations, I’ll use Hagerty on the basis there is nothing else available for free.
Chris '67 S1 2+2

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#12 Re: Valuation.

Post by Tom W » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:59 am

I think you’re after a couple of different things here. An insurance valuation should represent what it would cost to get a similar condition and spec in the current market. Any of the specialist clubs should be able to do this for you, or you can sometimes self certify depending on your insurance company. Once agreed, this is what your insurance should pay out if the car is a total loss, but always check the small print in detail. This value won’t necessarily be what it’s cost you to restore or maintain the the car, over the years. However, it might be higher than similar cars sell for, to allow for added value due to recent work. For example, a you might have a recently rebuilt engine, but any other similar condition car that you could buy 2nd hand is a bit more of an unknown quantity. In the case of E-types, it’s not hard to buy a recently restored car, so the insurance value of yours should be similar to a similar spec and quality car bought on the open market. This is different from the price it would cost if you commissioned a garage to restore a car to the same spec.

As far as the value of your car for sale, the insurance value is probably a good starting point. The other thing to factor in is, what do you want for it? Are you trying to make a profit, is there a minimum you’ll take for it after advertising costs etc? How quickly do you need to sell. There’s probably not a big market of people looking for an expensive classic sports car straight after Christmas, but when the weather’s picked up and people forget how much Christmas has cost, things change.

You could look at auctions if you’re really not sure where to pitch it. A good auction house should be able to advise you on what value to expect, and will market the car for you, but be sure to read the small print again, especially to see where you stand in the way of costs if it doesn’t meet reserve or if you change your mind. Alternatively, you could look at commission sales through a dealer, but again check what you’re signing up for. With both dealers and auctions, they have to make a profit, so you’ll get less than someone pays for your car.
Tom
1970 S2 FHC

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#13 Re: Valuation.

Post by malcolm » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:18 pm

Pbirty wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:28 am
I would really prefer paying someone who knows exactly what there looking at to give me a more exact figure.
Without being negative, I'm not sure you'll find this. It's not a product like gold, which can be weighed, or stamps, with a catalogue price. It's worth what someone will pay for it, not really knowing what the engine may be like (even if it's a recent re-build), how long the diff may live for, or what's lurking inside the sills etc etc. At best, an "expert" will make a guess which will be different to another "expert's" guess.
I think you'll get as good an idea as any by studying what cars that sound similar to your's actually go for, (not what they are advertised at) and having a stab at that price. If there is no rush, stick 10%? on and see what happens. If it doesn't sell, come down if necessary. Have a look at auction house achieved prices, Ebay confirmed sales, and form an opinion. You could always share that opinion then on here.
Malcolm
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
1969 Series 2 2+2
2009 Jaguar XF-S

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#14 Re: Valuation.

Post by mgcjag » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:31 pm

Hi Paul......Contact https://www.mossjaguar.com/index.html the owner Angus Moss is one of our forum Moderators.....or https://www.classic-motor-cars.co.uk you will obviously need to take your car to them for a valuation for selling... im sure that either of the above could also advise on any work that could increase the value.....Also worth looking at selling on commission.....leaving the car with either of the above if they offer the service to sell on your behalf....there are other companies that offer this....its in their interest to sell at the best price to get a higher commission....Steve
Steve
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#15 Re: Valuation.

Post by vikla » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:53 pm

There is another free resource for classic cars prices - the Practical Classics price guide which is updated regularly.
The last one I downloaded was for August 2018 - details below

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These are the price categories

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What I often see when people are advertising privately is putting the car on at a 'dealer' price which is completely unrealistic. I reckon dealers, depending on their E-type expertise and knowledge, will often achieve at least 20% more than selling privately.
Steve
S1 4.2 FHC 1966

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#16 Re: Valuation.

Post by Pbirty » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:01 pm

Hello. Thanks for your comments and advice.
Think I have managed to upload some pictures. I have done a little more work on the car since some of these were taken. Its currently in a carcoon for the winter. The car has undergone a full restoration but did start out as a rust and rot free example so little to no welding has been done. I have tried to keep the car as original as possible retaining the correct colour inside and out. The rebuild included a full engine and gearbox rebuild along with the rear diff and all running gear. There are a few more jobs I will get done when it warms up a bit. I'm a little unsure if getting the car registered on Uk plates will be a good or bad thing. Will it put another owner on the car? and will this affect its value in any way? I have done some research and think its only a 4 owner car. Im going to get the car detailed at some point soon as the engine bay is full of dust. Cheers Paul.






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#17 Re: Valuation.

Post by mgcjag » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:18 pm

You need to get a Heritage certificate and have it registered to give it a full identity......its value will be decreased without it....Steve
Steve
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#18 Re: Valuation.

Post by nefematic » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:23 pm

Pbirty wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:01 pm
...Will it put another owner on the car? and will this affect its value in any way?...

If it was me buying your car I would pay a premium for it knowing you had it registered and driven it for 2000 miles and taken care of anything not just right after assembly (that could be a many of small things you find out whilst test driving). You are the fifth owner? So what difference would it make if it were registered before the sale? It still remains a five owner car nonetheless. Register and drive it. It makes for a more authentic seller.

Martin
Martin Scherz
Late S2 1970 OTS US LHD

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#19 Re: Valuation.

Post by Wilder » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:36 pm

Hi Paul, I have a LHD October 1962 fhc so re values there are some factors to consider which affect values.
1. Colour/ trim and I refer to the heritage certificate "factory" colours ..Respray to a different scheme, and its £££ off the value. Best exterior colours for getting the top money, are apparantly Opalescent silver, Carmen red, and black.
2. originality of components (Moss box, correct head, diff, wheels etc) ,as all period/stamped components are desired by collectors.
3. Very important for values = has the car had a complete restoration, and how many miles has it been driven since?
The last one has a huge impact on value. If you drive the car for say 1,000 miles after a restoration, it is around a £7k drop off compared with one that has done nothing but test mileage...
Top value is concourse, but hardly any meet that standard.
Lose the correct gearbox and its 20% off that value. Change the engine and it can be as much as 30% .
For top money you need everything as it was when it left the factory,including the ancilliaries such as tool kit , jack etc...
I know this because its pretty much the same for most classic cars I have owned. You can take more liberties with an S2 , but an early S1 is very sensitive regarding originality.
The older the E type & the more original, then the more money... I was told ...
My aluminium dash is scratched and looks like its had 60 years use, but to change it would penalize it in the eyes of some.
I remember not long ago looking at a classic ferrari when I went with my friend to get his Aston serviced. Many parts of the interior were noticably dented, scratched or generally "worn".
The car was up for £2.5m and they said the originality is what was most important, and far more so than the condition...Repro parts, or restored parts made to look new did not give the aura of a 60 year old car, and was not "authentic"...I understand what they mean, but I guess the piper calls the tune.
Mine will be subject to a total restoration this year, and I reckon it should be around £150k when finished (and undriven)...
Last edited by Wilder on Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
Jonathan K
1969 S2 OTS

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#20 Re: Valuation.

Post by Durango2k » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:43 pm

...if it is a very rotten E, I just happen to remember "4000 holes in Blackburn Lancashire...now they know how many holes to fill the Albert hall...."

:-)

Joe Schmedl... err, Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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