Is ethanol free fuel still available?

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MarekH
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#1 Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by MarekH » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:05 pm

I am looking for fuel for one of my motorbikes which may, or may not be, laid up for a while.

I have just spent three days clearing out congealed rubber and rust out of a motorbike fuel tank and don't much want to go through this process ever again. The interweb has references which appear to mostly go around in circles and the petrol station owners I have talked to this afternoon have no clue what they are selling. Not all pumps at the stations are marked with the helpful "E" markings.

If any of you have any leads worth following up, then I'd be most grateful.

Before Pete asks, no it's not the Ducati.

kind regards
Marek

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cactusman
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#2 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by cactusman » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:57 pm

Most super unleaded here in the UK remains ethanol free as far as I know. If it has any in the pump should be marked E5 (5%). All std unleaded is now E5 here in the UK and soon to be E10 (10%) as it is in Europe.
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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abowie
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#3 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by abowie » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:51 pm

We have little or no ethanol containing fuel in South Australia AFAIK and I can even get 100LL from an airfield if I really want it.

Not that that helps Marek much... although 100LL might be a good choice for your bike if you can get it.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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Whitact
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#4 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by Whitact » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:28 am

Hi Marek,
You could try this:
https://aaoil.co.uk/product-category/ra ... rage-fuel/
98 octane & ethanol-free but not cheap.
Cheers
Adrian Turner
S3 OTS & FHC
S1 FHC
XK140 FHC

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MarekH
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#5 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by MarekH » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:58 am

Dear Andrew,
That is actually most helpful!
Perhaps I should ask one of my aeroplane owning chums....
kind regards
Marek

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SESH
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#6 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by SESH » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:17 pm

Hi Marek,
Just gone through this investigation process last week.
My investigation showed that the only one that could say that it was 100% entanol free was Esso Supreme 97 RON.
I was putting Shell V Power in my E Etype, but have recently found that it can contain up to 5% ethanol.
Kind regards
Mike
1973 Series 3 OTS Signal Red

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MarekH
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#7 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by MarekH » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:04 pm

That's interesting. I looked at the two Esso stations local to me and they were clearly marked with "E5" stickers on the pump.

kind regards
Marek

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MSM
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#8 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by MSM » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:45 pm

Some interesting reading here, particularly the .pdf document right at the bottom of the page.

https://www.fbhvc.co.uk/fuels#other-fuels
Mike

S2 FHC

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SESH
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#9 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by SESH » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:52 pm

Hi Marek,

This is directly from the Esso website................

What is the ethanol content of your fuels?

The majority of unleaded 95 Octane petrol sold in the UK contains up to 5% ethanol as required under the Government’s Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO).

There is currently no requirement for renewable fuel (such as ethanol) to be present in super unleaded (97 grade petrol).

Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland). We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme+ – providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland.

Our Synergy Fuels:
Diesel
Supreme+ Diesel
Unleaded
Supreme+ Unleaded
1973 Series 3 OTS Signal Red

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#10 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by AussieEtype » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:27 am

abowie wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:51 pm
We have little or no ethanol containing fuel in South Australia AFAIK
All BP fuels in Aust have a % of ethanol in it and that is why I dont buy BP fuel. Their standard unleaded is actually E10 but they charge unleaded price.
1971 Series 3 E-type OTS

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#11 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by abowie » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:30 am

AussieEtype wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:27 am
abowie wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:51 pm
We have little or no ethanol containing fuel in South Australia AFAIK
All BP fuels in Aust have a % of ethanol in it and that is why I dont buy BP fuel. Their standard unleaded is actually E10 but they charge unleaded price.
The bastards! I use their 98 exclusively in my E too!
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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44DHR
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#12 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by 44DHR » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:05 am

Marek,
You don’t necessarily need to know anyone with an aircraft to obtain AvGas 100LL, (which stands for Low Lead 100 Octane”, as many small airfields such as one I go to here on the Isle of Wight, (Sandown Airport), have self serve unattended pumps.
Basically you take your 20 litre Jerry can, go airside and follow the instructions on the pump which takes you through the fueling process. Normally it asks for your payment card details to pre-authorise payment - bearing in mind aircraft would be taking on quite a bit of fuel - and once authorised and you have coupled the earthing lead to your can, you are free to fuel. Once fuelled, it prints out a receipt. You may have to enter a registration number, so I just enter my car’s details.

I use the AvGas in my 1972 Spanish Bultaco as it has a fibreglass fuel tank, as ethanol will soften and destroy fibreglass tanks. Many horror stories on the web of such events. The other advantages of AvGas is the higher octane and the much longer “shelf life” before it goes stale. You don’t want to be flying a plane and have stale fuel ! Ethanol will also absorb water and damage rubber and aluminium components, hence our concerns on the various seals in our older cars. Also it doesn’t smell too much. Obviously being a leaded petrol, you can’t use it in modern cars with a catalytic converters.

Just picking up on the comment above about ethanol and water, there is a simple test to see if fuel has ethanol and with a little calculation, by how much percentage. Get a graduated test tube and fill with fuel to 10ml and add 2ml of water on top - or similar quantities. Cover the tube and agitate it and let it settle for 10 minutes. The ethanol and water will mix and separate out together under the fuel. If the water level appears to have increased, the fuel contains ethanol - and by measuring the increase in the level of the water/ethanol level - by knowing the original volume of the water, you can determine the amount of ethanol.

As regards your initial comment regarding storing a motorbike long term, I drain my the tanks on my bikes and outboard to leave these and the carburettors completely empty. Particularly on two stroke engines, you would not want the fuel to evaporate and leave the oil mix to really gum up the carburettor.
Dave Rose
1967 Series 1 4.2 FHC

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JerryL770
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#13 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by JerryL770 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:04 pm

So, if you cannot buy ethanol free petrol but really want it, you can make it yourself by washing out the ethanol with water. Then you just need a way to dispose of the water/ethanol mix.

This is also the method for recovering fuel if being the victim of someone dumping sugar into your fuel tank. Of course it is necessary to drain the tank completely but if the engine has been run with this contaminated fuel, it's going to need a strip down, at least of the cylinder head to remove the carbon build up.

Thanks to Alistair McClean for that tip 8-)
Jerome Lunt
1970 S2 FHC - Dark Blue, Red Interior, MX5 Seats

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#14 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by SESH » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:35 pm

I recently filled my E Type up with Esso Supreme + 97 RON and it had an E5 sticker on the pump.
I called Esso customer care today and they advised that although the pump has an E5 sticker the fuel does not contain any Ethanol and they do not have any plans to introduce Ethanol to Supreme + 97 RON.
The E5 stickers comes from the government requirements for 5% Ethanol in standard fuel but it does not apply to Supreme + 97 RON.
Mike
1973 Series 3 OTS Signal Red

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MarekH
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#15 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by MarekH » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:08 pm

Thank you for squaring that circle.

It's a very opaque thing for them to have done. They should at least tell their forecourt managers that it is E0 (for now) but instead they have hedged their bets and covered their backsides and mislead their customers.

kind regards
Marek

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#16 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by cactusman » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:25 pm

Most interesting...ethanol per se will run an engine perfectly well. Pure ethanol has a RON of 108 :geek2: The issue is leaving fuel standing in tanks where ethanol will take up moisture and lead to tank corrosion, and it's habit of deteriorating rubber hoses. Very damp fuel will also corrode aluminium components...so use the car regularly in summer, check hoses regularly and drain the system for winter and you should avoid most issues if you cannot get E0 fuel.
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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#17 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by JerryL770 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:21 pm

Most pumps are multi-fuel so the E5 sticker probably relates to the lower grade fuel ??
Jerome Lunt
1970 S2 FHC - Dark Blue, Red Interior, MX5 Seats

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#18 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by edriver » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:50 am

SESH wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:17 pm
Hi Marek,
Just gone through this investigation process last week.
My investigation showed that the only one that could say that it was 100% entanol free was Esso Supreme 97 RON.
I was putting Shell V Power in my E Etype, but have recently found that it can contain up to 5% ethanol.
Kind regards
Mike
Hi Mike,
your statement about ethanol in Shell V Power shocked me (I use it in my classics cars) and looked it up. Your statement is correct for the U.K., due to the RTFO Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation :thumbdown:
https://support.shell.com/hc/en-gb/arti ... s-Ethanol-
Shell (Germany) claims that they do not add ethanol to V-Power, but in the footnote it says that it may contain up to 0.7% residual ethanol.
https://www.shell.de/autofahrer/shell-k ... r-faq.html

Klaus
Klaus
1963 FHC 889633, 1979 Porsche 928, 1991 Mazda MX-5

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#19 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by johnaz » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:54 pm

I use 100LL avgas, it runs my Mk2 and E coupe perfectly. They can sit for a long time, always fire right up as avgas does not deteriorate like normal car gas does in 30 days or less. No eating rubber hoses either.
It does have some lead in it which is good for the valves, seats, guides with the lead lube. Most old cars needed lead for upper end lube, so Jags like it.
And higher octane and long shelf life.
Has a bit different smell from exhaust, but my pipes are nice gray color, burns very clean.
John

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#20 Re: Is ethanol free fuel still available?

Post by SESH » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:21 pm

Statement just received today direct from Esso for their UK supply................

The E5 sticker on the Synergy Supreme+ petrol pumps was introduced to ensure Esso complies with the Government's standards on labelling of fuel labelling – see https://knowyourfuel.campaign.gov.uk/. The E5 label means the fuel could contain up to 5% renewables such as ethanol.

Esso does not currently have any plans to introduce ethanol into the Supreme+ fuel brand in the area.
1973 Series 3 OTS Signal Red

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