Engine hoist load leveller

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rfs1957
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#21 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by rfs1957 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:54 pm

Forgotten them already ! Not sure I ever had them ! can you enlighten me ?

Could you suggest a drawing or exploded diagram ?
Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
1978 Mini Van
(plus bevel and belt single-cylinder Ducatis)

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mgcjag
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#22 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by mgcjag » Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:36 pm

Hi Rory..error in my last post iv edited it..spacer between lower engine frame and picture frame as shown here
Image
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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rfs1957
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#23 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by rfs1957 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:53 pm

Interesting indeed, don't think I've ever had those. What thickness are they, Steve, any idea ?

Do they compensate for some missing thickness elsewhere on the tube interface - I haven't looked at the bits to understand, I confess, and maybe the thickness is determined by something obvious - or are they an admission that everything needed tweaking upwards a bit at the nose ?
Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
1978 Mini Van
(plus bevel and belt single-cylinder Ducatis)

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mgcjag
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#24 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by mgcjag » Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:00 pm

Hi Rory...look at how the picture frame is made..channel slotted into each other..you can see it in the photo....so the spacer is to provide a "flat" surface for the engine frame flange....you may find the shims stuck to the picture/engine frame if you havert refurbed them yet.....Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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rfs1957
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#25 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by rfs1957 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:36 pm

Yeah, engage brain before operating question, sorry.

Will make something suitable ; many thanks for the help.
Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
1978 Mini Van
(plus bevel and belt single-cylinder Ducatis)

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Richardhealey
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#26 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by Richardhealey » Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:16 pm

Hi Rory,
My rather minor 2p worth...
When I took my engine out I used the hoist shown in previous posts and a load leveller. I really nearly got VERY stuck, as half way out and almost beyond the point of no return - I realised to my horror that the load leveller had ‘run out’ of travel without the engine being at the acute angle required.
I had to lower the engine again, remove the load leveller and proceed using just the front lifting eye of the engine.
I was very worried that lifting the entire engine and gearbox using one lifting eye was potentially dangerous from either the lifting eye breaking or bearing too much weight on the head studs and damaging the threads. I carried on in a stupid red haze of just wanting the engine out :oops: I got away with it though...
I have the ‘luxury’ of a pit, so I’m thinking I’ll drop the engine in the pit half way down, roll the car over it and then just lift it into position, using the leveller adjust the angle as required.
I bet it won’t be as easy as I think!
Cheers,
Rich
1969 series 2, 2+2... going for a full rebuild.. Gulp...

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AshM
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#27 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by AshM » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:04 pm

Hi Rory

A method which worked a treat for me was to fit the engine frames first and then position the engine fully in place but an inch above the engine mounts.

Lower the engine from above with hoist at an angle but no picture frame makes it easy to get it into position. Used a scissor jack under the engine unit and a trolley jack under the gearbox to rest the unit horizontally. Just above the engine mounts.

Then fit the Picture/Bonnet frames in front of the engine. Bit fiddly but worth the effort.

Then lower the engine down onto its mountings and gearbox up to its position.

Benefits for me?

- you build the engine / carbs up to full spec before fitting. Carbs are a pain to fit in situ as we all know.

- no damage to engine stabiliser bracket or picture frame

- the bell housing vs. body fight does not happen

We took two hours - start to finish - and not a scratch. Time is the front frames; and yes, don't forget the spacers at the bottom of the picture frame as Steve reminds. How do I know? We were sitting with a congratulatory mug of coffee looking at our work and my son asked @are these important dad?@ :banghead:

Would not be fun if it was easy!

Just another option...

All the best
Ash
Series 2 FHC 1970
1R 20607

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Jeremy
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#28 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by Jeremy » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:35 am

Ash, that reminds me - in my twenties, restoring my TR4A, I had assembled the engine, clutch and gearbox and fitted into the chassis, clearing away all tools after a good weekend's work, and found a single small brass bush on the floor. Now what could that be, I asked myself.....
Jeremy
1967 S1 4.2 FHC

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christopher storey
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#29 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by christopher storey » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:08 am

Richardhealey wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:16 pm

When I took my engine out I used the hoist shown in previous posts and a load leveller. I really nearly got VERY stuck, as half way out and almost beyond the point of no return - I realised to my horror that the load leveller had ‘run out’ of travel without the engine being at the acute angle required.
It is important for the car to be positioned with the rear end raised about 12 inches as shown in the workshop manual diagram to prevent your experience

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#30 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by Richardhealey » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:34 pm

@jeremy - I bet you are talking about a spigot bush?!
I am so paranoid about mine, that although it needs soaking in oil, it’s already taped in position just so that I don’t forget it!
At least with our Tr’s you could extract the gear box from within the car!
1969 series 2, 2+2... going for a full rebuild.. Gulp...

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#31 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by Richardhealey » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:42 pm

christopher storey wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:08 am
Richardhealey wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:16 pm

When I took my engine out I used the hoist shown in previous posts and a load leveller. I really nearly got VERY stuck, as half way out and almost beyond the point of no return - I realised to my horror that the load leveller had ‘run out’ of travel without the engine being at the acute angle required.
It is important for the car to be positioned with the rear end raised about 12 inches as shown in the workshop manual diagram to prevent your experience
Yes, Cristopher and I did read the manual. In the end I think I must have been shy of 12”, didn’t appreciate at the time why it needed to be so high and hence my difficulties.
There’s no excuse really. Typical impatience and along with it I had ‘man flu’ and working alone so most if not all sense went out the window. We live and learn!
1969 series 2, 2+2... going for a full rebuild.. Gulp...

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#32 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by christopher storey » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:22 am

Richard : don't take my figure of 12 inches as Gospel, but the height does need to be fairly substantial. Strangely enough, i have just looked in the workshop manual and cannot find any reference to raising the rear end ! So the drawing which i have in mind must have come from somewhere else

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288gto
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#33 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by 288gto » Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:38 pm

christopher storey wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:22 am
Richard : don't take my figure of 12 inches as Gospel, but the height does need to be fairly substantial. Strangely enough, i have just looked in the workshop manual and cannot find any reference to raising the rear end ! So the drawing which i have in mind must have come from somewhere else
Don't worry Christopher, you're not imagining things. :lol:
No picture but there is a paragraph in the Haynes manual that mentions it.......

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Simon
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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Richardhealey
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#34 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by Richardhealey » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:56 pm

Perhaps we are all slightly drifting off topic, but back to the load leveller, I still found that this ran out of travel and would not allow for the acute angle the engine needed to be orientated to come out. Hence me needing to abandon using it and ‘reverting’ to using the engine hoist on just the front lifting eye.
I only mention it again, as others may come across this difficulty when trying to take the engine out using a load leveller.
For what it’s worth, what is the opinion of the forum on the engine and gearbox weight being taken by one lifting eye?
I’d be interested to know.
Cheers,
Rich
1969 series 2, 2+2... going for a full rebuild.. Gulp...

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mgcjag
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#35 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by mgcjag » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:08 pm

Hi Richard.....a friend lifted his xj6 engine on just the front lift eye......got the engine out but just as he began to lower it the studs gave way and it dropped to the floor.......so use both eyes or additional slings under the engine mounts or similar....Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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Series1 Stu
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#36 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by Series1 Stu » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:39 am

Steve,

I think your friend was very unlucky for that to happen. Going from what you say his studs had already failed and it was just a matter of time before he'd discover it. If he had tried tightening the head nuts to 54 ft lbs before he started work he would probably have easily broken the studs.

At 54 ft lbs, each stud carries a tensile load of around 3.5 Tonnes, easily enough to take twice the weight of the car, never mind the engine and gearbox.

So to answer Richard's question, yes, technically the 2 studs should comfortably carry the load of engine and gearbox, provided everything is in good condition. Best to check first by torque testing.

The lifting brackets on the engine should comfortably carry those loads too.

When it comes to lifting eyes, that's a whole different ball game where they are 'lifed' items with strict requirements on slinging angles, etc.

Regards
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

'62 FHC - Work In (slow) Progress
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#37 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by 1954Etype » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

I wouldn't trust the studs on a long stud engine. The more you can use the better!
Angus 67 FHC 1E33656

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#38 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by christopher storey » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:42 pm

I agree with Angus . In fact, I never lift any engine without having a secondary sling ( in my case I usually use polypropylene rope with yachting shackles ) so that even if the primary ifting gear fails , catastrophe should be avoided

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rfs1957
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#39 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by rfs1957 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:09 am

These work well to spread the load across fourteen studs.

Image

Image

Break out the porcelaine, bore and thread to take M10 eye-bolts.

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Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
1978 Mini Van
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mgcjag
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#40 Re: Engine hoist load leveller

Post by mgcjag » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:59 pm

Looks good....is it suitable lifting on the aluminium thread of a spark plug hole?.....Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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