As a sprightly 53 yr old I am now in a position to buy my dream car... e type
So the scenario is set, I have a wad of money but I can only get out of a 2+2 due to a leg injury so that's cut down the list a little, I prefer the straight 6 over the V12 purely for servicing and repairs and due to budget it has to be a coupe. Now I want a car to drive but due to leg has to be an auto, once again cutting the list so basically what I want is
straight 6, 2+2 coupe, wire wheels, auto
So (and I want honest answers) what will I get for about ?20k to ?25k and what do you think is the most reliable
jon
hello and help
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MarkE
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#2
Hi Jon and welcome
For that sort of money you will get an absolutely stunning S3 2+2, with enough left over to get some useful mods done to it.
Yes it's a V12, but there's hardly any difference between the 6 and the 12 for servicing and repairs. The plugs are easy to get at, and there's one more carburettor, but that's it! Oil change / air filter change is very simple, and the V12 will go on for ever if it's maintained regularly. It?s maybe an extra couple of hours every year or so to look after.
There seem to be quite a few S3 survivors in original and non-rusty condition...to find a similar S1 or S2 would be quite hard. I can't fathom out why the S3 should have survived so well, other that as it was made in the bad old days of Leyland ownership, many had to be pulled apart and rebuilt / repainted under warrantee.
They're not too economical, but not much difference compared with a 6 cylinder car unless you're doing a high mileage. You can always put the injection system from an XJS onto the E Type, very cheaply, or put on an aftermarket injection system, and get fuel consumption far better than a 6 cylinder car.
The S3 2+2 is for me the bargain E type currently, and I'm sure that won't last. Also, as a personal view, I find the proportions of the S3 2+2 just right, with the wider track complementing the additional length well.
Have a look at the S3!!
For that sort of money you will get an absolutely stunning S3 2+2, with enough left over to get some useful mods done to it.
Yes it's a V12, but there's hardly any difference between the 6 and the 12 for servicing and repairs. The plugs are easy to get at, and there's one more carburettor, but that's it! Oil change / air filter change is very simple, and the V12 will go on for ever if it's maintained regularly. It?s maybe an extra couple of hours every year or so to look after.
There seem to be quite a few S3 survivors in original and non-rusty condition...to find a similar S1 or S2 would be quite hard. I can't fathom out why the S3 should have survived so well, other that as it was made in the bad old days of Leyland ownership, many had to be pulled apart and rebuilt / repainted under warrantee.
They're not too economical, but not much difference compared with a 6 cylinder car unless you're doing a high mileage. You can always put the injection system from an XJS onto the E Type, very cheaply, or put on an aftermarket injection system, and get fuel consumption far better than a 6 cylinder car.
The S3 2+2 is for me the bargain E type currently, and I'm sure that won't last. Also, as a personal view, I find the proportions of the S3 2+2 just right, with the wider track complementing the additional length well.
Have a look at the S3!!
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#3 thought as much
I must admit I was leaning the way of a ser 3 2+2, to be honest the running costs for petrol doesn't really matter as I am not going to be doing long hauls.
Plenty for sale and I have looked at a few (first one was a lovely paint job covering so much filler it was unbelievable)
I am off to the states soon so I might have a look over the pond at one as shipping is only $1300 to uk but I have no idea about cost involved in conversion to RHD, maybe better sticking to UK car if I can find a good one.
Jon
Plenty for sale and I have looked at a few (first one was a lovely paint job covering so much filler it was unbelievable)
I am off to the states soon so I might have a look over the pond at one as shipping is only $1300 to uk but I have no idea about cost involved in conversion to RHD, maybe better sticking to UK car if I can find a good one.
Jon
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Peter Collins
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#4 series 3 e type 2+2
As a series 3 2+2 owner i can highly recommend them , and in the right colour they can look as good as any of the other e types { dark colours being the best } . My car is fuel injected and has a 5 speed box , and my project this year is fuel economy . For example i have just done a round trip of 198 miles , starting at my home in Kidderminster over the clee hills to the Elan Valley in Wales and back . When you consider this is mostly on B roads it averaged 22.7 to the gallon . I will post further information on moterway milage as i complete it .
Peter Collins
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christopher storey
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#5
I don't want to spoil this parade of lovely cars, but Jon must have an auto, so 5 speeds etc are out of the question. With an auto V12 you will be very lucky indeed if you better 15 mpg, and in local running single figures are possible. Added to which I have to disagree with Mark about maintenance costs. Provided ( and it is a big proviso) you have a V12 which does not have internal corrosion problems, there is not a big difference from the 6 cylinder cars, but if there are corrosion problems the V12 is ruinously expensive to repair and may in fact be irreparable. One of the main problems is that it is often impossible to remove the cylinder heads without butchery, although there are some special tools which may achieve this but there are no guarantees
As far as converting a US car is concerned, RHD is fairly easy to achieve, at a cost for parts usually in the ?2000 region. However , the duty and VAT position must not be overlooked , and although I cannot remember what the duty is on US cars, I think it is at least 10% with 20% VAT on everything including freight to be added. Furthermore, unless you go and look at it, you have no idea at all what you are getting. Do not fall into the trap of thinking that dry state cars from e.g California will be guaranteed to be corrosion free. In the first place they may have been in other states for some of their 40 ish years , and secondly those which have lived near the sea are just as susceptible to the ravages of salt as are UK cars . Another hazard of US cars is that there are some terrible bodgers of E types there who either do not know where to get, or cannot afford to get , parts , and as I know to my cost bodges are some of the most expensive things to fix
I am sorry if this seems negative, but it is better to go into the purchase of an E with your eyes open to the pitfalls , which are many, not least because of the rather unusual construction of these cars
As far as converting a US car is concerned, RHD is fairly easy to achieve, at a cost for parts usually in the ?2000 region. However , the duty and VAT position must not be overlooked , and although I cannot remember what the duty is on US cars, I think it is at least 10% with 20% VAT on everything including freight to be added. Furthermore, unless you go and look at it, you have no idea at all what you are getting. Do not fall into the trap of thinking that dry state cars from e.g California will be guaranteed to be corrosion free. In the first place they may have been in other states for some of their 40 ish years , and secondly those which have lived near the sea are just as susceptible to the ravages of salt as are UK cars . Another hazard of US cars is that there are some terrible bodgers of E types there who either do not know where to get, or cannot afford to get , parts , and as I know to my cost bodges are some of the most expensive things to fix
I am sorry if this seems negative, but it is better to go into the purchase of an E with your eyes open to the pitfalls , which are many, not least because of the rather unusual construction of these cars
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MarkE
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#6
Some good points Christopher, but I'm coming back at you!
I've travelled many tens of thousands of miles in V12 XJS cars. Some 5.3, some 6.0, all automatic and all weighing in at 2 tons.
On a run they always return 25mpg, with mixed driving as Peter has just done in his, somewhere around the high teens / low twenties. Driving in stop / start town conditions and / or short journeys brings it down to 15mpg, or worse if you really try.
All of these were HE engines, which are a little more frugal than the flat head engines fitted to the E Type, and indeed, Peter's S3 has an HE engine. But the E Type does weigh considerably less than the XJS.
I also drove a 3.6 manual XJS for nearly 200,000 miles, and whilst that was a little better on the short and around town journeys, it never bettered 25mpg on a long run....and there were a lot of those!
Of course, a lot depends on how you drive and where you drive, but from the S3s I've known with injection fitted, they've all returned 20 to 26 mpg. I don't think that I've heard of a S1 / S2 E type returning that sort of mileage.
As for the internal corrosion issues, that can be a big problem in cars that haven't been maintained properly (regular replacement of antifreeze, or in the case of my car, not using antifreeze at all) or have been stood a long time. But in the worst case for that situation, a really good HE engine can be bought for peanuts, and the sump / oil pickup, front cover, manifolds and a few other bits swapped from the E Type engine, and a good engine with a proper rear crankshaft oil seal (post 1988 cars!) can be fitted into the S3.
But internal corrosion isn't just a V12 feature. As a direct comparison, when stripping my S1 4.2 engine, I had exactly the same issue as I had with the V12 engine. I had spent 3 months gradually easing the head up the studs...by a total of about 4 mm! In the end, a chap took the car away to do the job in a fully equipped Jag workshop, and he declared that he'd eat his hat if he couldn't get it off in 2 hours. Three days later and 4 or 5 sawn studs, the head was off (but he still hasn't eaten his hat!)
As I wanted to keep the matching numbers (not an issue with V12 heads) I spent a small fortune with Rob Beere having the sawn-off studs removed from the head, and a couple of small repairs to the waterways made. Including new valve seats, not a lot of change out of ?2000.
In contrast, when we finally got the heads off the V12, a perfect 2nd hand pair was found for ?300.
The cost of re-building the V12 engine was quite a bit less than the 6 cylinder engine, done by the same chap. Taking the difference in spend on the cylinder heads into consideration, the V12 was a little more, but only by 10% or so.
The V12 engine when maintained properly will go on for 300,000 miles plus, I guess because it is so unstressed. A lot of myths have grown up around the engines due mainly to them not being looked after properly by their 2nd and 3rd and 4th owners, or having been laid up for many years. They really have proven their worth in the XJS, and it's nearly always the case that when they get to the scrapyard, the only good aspect of the car is the engine. Nobody wants them, hence they really are for nothing.
I'm sure that this situation won't last forever either!
I've travelled many tens of thousands of miles in V12 XJS cars. Some 5.3, some 6.0, all automatic and all weighing in at 2 tons.
On a run they always return 25mpg, with mixed driving as Peter has just done in his, somewhere around the high teens / low twenties. Driving in stop / start town conditions and / or short journeys brings it down to 15mpg, or worse if you really try.
All of these were HE engines, which are a little more frugal than the flat head engines fitted to the E Type, and indeed, Peter's S3 has an HE engine. But the E Type does weigh considerably less than the XJS.
I also drove a 3.6 manual XJS for nearly 200,000 miles, and whilst that was a little better on the short and around town journeys, it never bettered 25mpg on a long run....and there were a lot of those!
Of course, a lot depends on how you drive and where you drive, but from the S3s I've known with injection fitted, they've all returned 20 to 26 mpg. I don't think that I've heard of a S1 / S2 E type returning that sort of mileage.
As for the internal corrosion issues, that can be a big problem in cars that haven't been maintained properly (regular replacement of antifreeze, or in the case of my car, not using antifreeze at all) or have been stood a long time. But in the worst case for that situation, a really good HE engine can be bought for peanuts, and the sump / oil pickup, front cover, manifolds and a few other bits swapped from the E Type engine, and a good engine with a proper rear crankshaft oil seal (post 1988 cars!) can be fitted into the S3.
But internal corrosion isn't just a V12 feature. As a direct comparison, when stripping my S1 4.2 engine, I had exactly the same issue as I had with the V12 engine. I had spent 3 months gradually easing the head up the studs...by a total of about 4 mm! In the end, a chap took the car away to do the job in a fully equipped Jag workshop, and he declared that he'd eat his hat if he couldn't get it off in 2 hours. Three days later and 4 or 5 sawn studs, the head was off (but he still hasn't eaten his hat!)
As I wanted to keep the matching numbers (not an issue with V12 heads) I spent a small fortune with Rob Beere having the sawn-off studs removed from the head, and a couple of small repairs to the waterways made. Including new valve seats, not a lot of change out of ?2000.
In contrast, when we finally got the heads off the V12, a perfect 2nd hand pair was found for ?300.
The cost of re-building the V12 engine was quite a bit less than the 6 cylinder engine, done by the same chap. Taking the difference in spend on the cylinder heads into consideration, the V12 was a little more, but only by 10% or so.
The V12 engine when maintained properly will go on for 300,000 miles plus, I guess because it is so unstressed. A lot of myths have grown up around the engines due mainly to them not being looked after properly by their 2nd and 3rd and 4th owners, or having been laid up for many years. They really have proven their worth in the XJS, and it's nearly always the case that when they get to the scrapyard, the only good aspect of the car is the engine. Nobody wants them, hence they really are for nothing.
I'm sure that this situation won't last forever either!
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christopher storey
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#7
Mark : there is no doubt that the HE heads and specification changes improved things a great deal in the XJS - I remember sharing a new pre HE one with a friend in the late 70s and we got 9 mpg !! I agree also that the V 12 E is somewhat lighter than the XJS, but the 6 cylinder cars are much lighter than either . I am not saying that you are wrong about the V12 virtues, but having seen too many people disappointed by the reality of E types, I feel that it is wise to try and make sure that people go into E ownership with their eyes wide open - the potential for 50p a mile petrol costs is a bit eye watering! - and the problem particularly with V12s is that far too many of them have stood unused for years, if not decades . It was salutary to go on a recent JEC E type seminar and to find that out of the 70odd attenders, only 2 had V12s, which rather indicates the disuse rate of them
I was very interested in your story of a stuck XK head . Broken studs are really quite common, particularly in the long stud later 4.2s , but this is the first time I have heard of dissimilar metal corrosion affecting an XK in this particular way . Was anyone able to explain how it had happened? Incidentally, there was a time when eyebolts used to be screwed into plug holes, and the car susended by them until the block ( and car) fell off the suspended head! This was a particular favourite with the side valve Humber Super Snipes
I was very interested in your story of a stuck XK head . Broken studs are really quite common, particularly in the long stud later 4.2s , but this is the first time I have heard of dissimilar metal corrosion affecting an XK in this particular way . Was anyone able to explain how it had happened? Incidentally, there was a time when eyebolts used to be screwed into plug holes, and the car susended by them until the block ( and car) fell off the suspended head! This was a particular favourite with the side valve Humber Super Snipes
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MarkE
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#8
It's strange isn't it that 9mpg sounds so horrific to us Jaguar guys, and yet the Chelsea tractor drivers find this quite normal cruising around town in their Range Rovers and hideous Merc, Audi and BMW copies!
The worst was the XJ12 of 1971 / 74 vintage, which carried the 2 tons of car but with a carburettor engine. A carefully planned route between fill ups was required, with the extra weight of the XJ really making a huge difference in fuel consumption over the frugal S3 E Type.
The stuck head studs were just down to corrosion in both stud and head, probably caused by the car having no antifreeze (it was also a Californian car) and being laid up for 20 years. Rob Beere said he'd seen quite a few, mainly in the Californian imports flooding in during the 90s.
Here's the head as it came off....note the 4 cut studs (nice and shiny!)
And here's the head after Rob had performed his magic....
The worst was the XJ12 of 1971 / 74 vintage, which carried the 2 tons of car but with a carburettor engine. A carefully planned route between fill ups was required, with the extra weight of the XJ really making a huge difference in fuel consumption over the frugal S3 E Type.
The stuck head studs were just down to corrosion in both stud and head, probably caused by the car having no antifreeze (it was also a Californian car) and being laid up for 20 years. Rob Beere said he'd seen quite a few, mainly in the Californian imports flooding in during the 90s.
Here's the head as it came off....note the 4 cut studs (nice and shiny!)
And here's the head after Rob had performed his magic....
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#9
Jon,
I had the same car choice problem in 2005, and after much talking, looking and testing, opted for a series 1 1967 4.2 2+2, and have not looked back.
I have spent the last couple of years bringing the car up to a good standard and it has all been a pleasure.
After spending 30+years in the motor trade (two of which were in an engine reconditioning factory) I have to agree with Christopher's view.
I saw many V 12's with siezed heads and very few straight 6's with the same concern. But is only one factor to consider - S3's do look better. 4.2's sound better, the list goes on and on.
I find working on the 6 cylinder very easy and straight forward but in the end this is your choice
What ever you choose I bet you won't leave it alone and just want to keep driving whatever it does to the gallon ( you only live once and you can't take it with you )
Please keep us informed on your final choice
Regards
I had the same car choice problem in 2005, and after much talking, looking and testing, opted for a series 1 1967 4.2 2+2, and have not looked back.
I have spent the last couple of years bringing the car up to a good standard and it has all been a pleasure.
After spending 30+years in the motor trade (two of which were in an engine reconditioning factory) I have to agree with Christopher's view.
I saw many V 12's with siezed heads and very few straight 6's with the same concern. But is only one factor to consider - S3's do look better. 4.2's sound better, the list goes on and on.
I find working on the 6 cylinder very easy and straight forward but in the end this is your choice
What ever you choose I bet you won't leave it alone and just want to keep driving whatever it does to the gallon ( you only live once and you can't take it with you )
Please keep us informed on your final choice
Regards
Pete V
1967 S1 2+2
1967 S1 2+2
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#10
Hi Jon,
If you are looking for a bargain or a really good value for money car, always consider having also a look at German sites like:
mobile.de
autoscout24.de
Here over in Germany and on the LHD continent you experience a significant deduction in pricing if you are trying to sell a RHD E-Type, especially a 2+2 auto! And these two sites are nowerdays also covering offers from Spain, Italy, etc.
And it is easier and cheaper to check a car hereover as in the US. In addition we have also a strong MOT, so cars with black number plate should be in good order (nevertheless a through check is always required). Red number plated cars where numbering starts always with 07 or 06 do not have the German MOT so called T?V and might potentially bury some risks (not necessarily).
I found one really good looking advert: http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showD ... geNumber=1. Unfortunately the car has a manual transmition. But whenever a RHD with auto will turn up, no matter if S3 or S1 and S2?, I will let you know!
If you need some translation support, please let me know! I also could join you visiting a car if it is in the greater Franfurt (Main) area.
Good luck with your search!
Stefan
If you are looking for a bargain or a really good value for money car, always consider having also a look at German sites like:
mobile.de
autoscout24.de
Here over in Germany and on the LHD continent you experience a significant deduction in pricing if you are trying to sell a RHD E-Type, especially a 2+2 auto! And these two sites are nowerdays also covering offers from Spain, Italy, etc.
And it is easier and cheaper to check a car hereover as in the US. In addition we have also a strong MOT, so cars with black number plate should be in good order (nevertheless a through check is always required). Red number plated cars where numbering starts always with 07 or 06 do not have the German MOT so called T?V and might potentially bury some risks (not necessarily).
I found one really good looking advert: http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showD ... geNumber=1. Unfortunately the car has a manual transmition. But whenever a RHD with auto will turn up, no matter if S3 or S1 and S2?, I will let you know!
If you need some translation support, please let me know! I also could join you visiting a car if it is in the greater Franfurt (Main) area.
Good luck with your search!
Stefan
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#11
Reduced price on S1 2+2 - now 21900,- Euro ono instead of previously asked 23900,-. It is neither my car nor do I know the owner or have ever spoken to him.
http://alturl.com/6xwf7
Hopefully the link works. I am happy to help if required or someone gets interested. Car is located in Germany, 52068 Aachen, approx 250km northnorthwest of Frankfurt. Tel.: +49 172 2405963
Regards
Stefan
http://alturl.com/6xwf7
Hopefully the link works. I am happy to help if required or someone gets interested. Car is located in Germany, 52068 Aachen, approx 250km northnorthwest of Frankfurt. Tel.: +49 172 2405963
Regards
Stefan
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#12
Heads up Mr. Admin. It looks like we have another non genuine member.
The post by Eddiee has a website link hidden under "Government Funding".
The post by Eddiee has a website link hidden under "Government Funding".
Pete
'71 S3 2+2
'71 S3 2+2
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#13
Good spot. Post deleted.e-bygum wrote:Heads up Mr. Admin. It looks like we have another non genuine member.
The post by Eddiee has a website link hidden under "Government Funding".
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#14 ser 3 e type
After much searching I found the car I was looking for E Type ser 3 Manual (not auto as I found the clutch pretty easy on the manual) Has had an older full rebuild in 1988. Had the car inspected and he only picked up a few minor points.
1. dent in front lower valence air scoop
2. Acid burn on paintwork on boot lid (minor)
3. Water temp gauge reading low when fully warmed up
Bodywork in very good condition, engine and transmission very good fsh with photographic records of rebuilds and previous repairs
Ticked all the boxes, new wires, red with black interior which is also very nice and with the manual really good fun to drive. MPG I don.t really care about if I wanted good mpg then I wouldn,t have bought an e type
Price paid ?20k which after looking at 7 beforehand seemed an absolute steal.
will put a few phots up when I find the drivers for my printer
jon
1. dent in front lower valence air scoop
2. Acid burn on paintwork on boot lid (minor)
3. Water temp gauge reading low when fully warmed up
Bodywork in very good condition, engine and transmission very good fsh with photographic records of rebuilds and previous repairs
Ticked all the boxes, new wires, red with black interior which is also very nice and with the manual really good fun to drive. MPG I don.t really care about if I wanted good mpg then I wouldn,t have bought an e type
Price paid ?20k which after looking at 7 beforehand seemed an absolute steal.
will put a few phots up when I find the drivers for my printer
jon
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#15
[img][img]http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx14 ... 4001-1.jpg[/img][/img]
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#16
Welcome to E-Type ownership,
More importantly, congratulations on finding the most attractive version
of the car!
I was after a car for years before I found one I could afford, like many I wanted a Series 1, but over the past years of ownership, the Series III shape has really grown on me and I think it looks more balanced in many ways, I suppose it has to do with me being basically a product of the 1970s (born in the '60s, but became automobile aware in the '70s - like the trousers, the flares got gradually wider!)
I still love a Series 1 FHC, but I would not swap - maybe have a pair?. Anyway, I hope you enjoy it!
Regards,
More importantly, congratulations on finding the most attractive version
of the car!I was after a car for years before I found one I could afford, like many I wanted a Series 1, but over the past years of ownership, the Series III shape has really grown on me and I think it looks more balanced in many ways, I suppose it has to do with me being basically a product of the 1970s (born in the '60s, but became automobile aware in the '70s - like the trousers, the flares got gradually wider!)
I still love a Series 1 FHC, but I would not swap - maybe have a pair?. Anyway, I hope you enjoy it!
Regards,
Regards,
Simon
Series III FHC
Simon
Series III FHC
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#17 getting into it now
Fantastic car I love it to bits, my only regret is I didn't have the cash to buy one 30 years ago !
OK then, car has had a full service evrything done leads, dizzy cap, plugs, condensor, oil all filters, drained and flushed the coolant, the lot.
Checked all the tappet clearences and they were all pretty much spot on
compression test all ok and all cylinders pretty much the same and correct
Car still revving on tickover at 1000 to 1400 which is annoying, dash pots topped up which did cure it for a while but then it came back so I have new carb diaphrams and seals to fit, hopefully this will sort it out, if not then time to tweak the carbs
Driving an E type is possibly the most fun you can have with your clothes on !
Having a run out (well just down the road) to the JEC organised show at Bovington Tank Museum this weekend so if anyones there come and say hello (I am the porky bald bloke with a huge grin and a red ser 3)
jon
OK then, car has had a full service evrything done leads, dizzy cap, plugs, condensor, oil all filters, drained and flushed the coolant, the lot.
Checked all the tappet clearences and they were all pretty much spot on
compression test all ok and all cylinders pretty much the same and correct
Car still revving on tickover at 1000 to 1400 which is annoying, dash pots topped up which did cure it for a while but then it came back so I have new carb diaphrams and seals to fit, hopefully this will sort it out, if not then time to tweak the carbs
Driving an E type is possibly the most fun you can have with your clothes on !
Having a run out (well just down the road) to the JEC organised show at Bovington Tank Museum this weekend so if anyones there come and say hello (I am the porky bald bloke with a huge grin and a red ser 3)
jon
1974 ser 3
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#18 high tickovert
OK give me a gun because I feel like shooting myself. After chasing down all the possible reasons for high tickover and going into the realms of fantasy, full service, new leads, condensor, plugs the lot, carb diaprhams, needles and carb service kits done the lot , timing, tappets you name it
WHAT A PLONKER !!!!
Carb return spring broken !!!!!!!!!
sorted.... ticking over lovely
Moral of story - always check the cheap options first
jon
WHAT A PLONKER !!!!
Carb return spring broken !!!!!!!!!
sorted.... ticking over lovely
Moral of story - always check the cheap options first
jon
1974 ser 3
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MarkE
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#19
Not a waste of time at all Jon. The V12 engine will go on for ever if regularly serviced (that includes changing the coolant!) but will give problems if it's ignored for a while. With any car that's been serviced and looked after by somebody else you haven't really got a clue what's been done before, or how well. You now have a known base to start from.
Now get those brakes seen to!
Now get those brakes seen to!
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