I need some convincing

[Zethy]

I love e-types, the body, the sound, the leatherwork, and wooden steering wheel.......
but i dont own one and my reasons are simple,
1) Cost of a good one
2) cost of fixing a bad one ( i have heard some horror stories)
3) Reliability
4) the upkeep

it all comes together and i think that i would just be better off buying something else

c'mon guys convince me to buy one?
or at least give me your best estimates...

[harryetype]

Hi Zethy

Welcome to the E-type UK forum.

If you buy a good one the upkeep would'nt be any more than any other classic and reliability can be fixed simply by fitting an electronic fuel pump ?65 + fitting 123 electronic ignition ?250 with a good set of leads.

Providing the rest of the car is good there should not be any problems.

I run E-type UK and would be happy to advise you further.

Once again welcome to the forum, I hope you find it usefull.

p.s. I hope they build the F-type.

[Heuer]

Zethy

When launched the E-type was the 'supercar' of its day - similar to a Ferrari 599 etc now. It remains a stunningly quick and competent car and if looked after is a totally reliable traveling companion. We have covered 22,000 fast miles through Europe over 8 years in ours with only one breakdown (incorrect part fitted). But to be able to do so the car has to be constantly fettled, preferably by people such as Harry who know the cars. Even if you buy a totally restored example expect to pay about ?2,000 a year to keep it in top condition, almost regardless of mileage as parts deteriorate with age. This season my car required new hoses, rear hubs, rear shocks, metalastic steering bushes, upper/lower ball joints, refurbished wire wheels, carb rebuild and more. About ?2,000 in parts and 44 hours work. Next season it will need the IRS out to replace diff seals/brake discs and possibly the engine out to sort a leaking rear crankshaft seal - about 75 hours of work plus parts.

If you are mechanically competent and have the time/facilities to do the work then not too bad I suppose but some items will require paid professional assistance. For pootling around locally on a sunny weekend you can be more circumspect in what needs doing but if you are really going to use the car as intended you will have to bite the bullet and do the work. We stay off main roads and travel on Europe's deserted minor road networks and use all the cars available performance. A breakdown on a lonely Alpine pass or a French C road in the middle of nowhere does not make for a happy trip hence the fastidious attention to maintenance. It also means that as soon as I spotted a high over France last Sunday we jumped into the car and headed for Limoges and a trip around the Loire valley - 1,700 miles in seven days, roof down all the way without a care. The car did use a pint of oil though ...........

[Zethy]

alright but what about going from scratch, with a 5k body shell and a completely ruined electrics, suspension, transmission, engine
what would the costs be for refurbishing from there?

[MarkE]

More than the car will be worth once completed, no matter what model you are restoring.

One of the E Type specialists will charge you ?70k to over ?100k if you just take it to them with a blank cheque.

Do all the work yourself, and you may be looking at ?10k - ?20k for parts / panels / trim kit.

It's up to you, and your skill level / time.

We are a little biased on this forum...probably not the right people to convince you to buy an E Type, but if you look purely at the economics, it can make sense. If you bought a new top of the range Jag, BMW or Merc 5 years ago, you will have lost ?50k by now. The big car market is on the floor, and modern big cars are virtually worthless.

If 5 years ago you had spent ?50k on a really good E type, and ?20k on a Ford Mondeo, instead of the ?70k on a posh big car, your E Type would be worth at least what you paid for it, assuming you'd looked after it properly, and the Mondeo would still be going strong!! So over a 5 year period, an E Type can save you ?50K. Good wife-convincing argument, eh?

However, to buy an E Type on economic grounds is totally missing the point. It's all about driving, fettling and just plain looking at one of the finest pieces of automotive art ever created.

[Heuer]

Zethy

The cost question has been asked and responded to before if you look through the forums e.g. http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=257 . Basically, and as Mark says, buy a good car and fettle it. Even restoration companies are now baulking at buying a wreck to restore, such is the amount of work and parts involved. Expect 1500 hours of work and about ?20,000 worth of parts and materials.

Do most of the work yourself and you could come in under ?50,000 to get it on the road. For that you can buy a very good S1 OTS and enjoy the car immediately. Sell the wreck for parts or as a 'project' to someone else.

[Car-Nut]

I love e-types, the body, the sound, the leatherwork, and wooden steering wheel.......
but i dont own one and my reasons are simple,
1) Cost of a good one
2) cost of fixing a bad one ( i have heard some horror stories)
3) Reliability
4) the upkeep

it all comes together and i think that i would just be better off buying something else

c'mon guys convince me to buy one?
or at least give me your best estimates...

Zethy... Welcome to the forum, Dubai the members are coming from far and wide now

I love e-types, the body, the sound, the leatherwork, and wooden steering wheel.......

There are enough reasons there to own one if you are a true "E" voholic

But I dont own one and my reasons are simple,
1) Cost of a good one
2) cost of fixing a bad one ( i have heard some horror stories)
3) Reliability
4) the upkeep

1) As with anything -you get what you pay for
2) Fixing a bad one - if you have the space , tools and time can save you a hell of a lot of money as I think Mark said
3) Realiability -Again as Heuer said like your everyday car if you maintain it its reliable.
4)Upkeep -All cars need maintaining but the older they get the more attention they need.

If you stay on this forum you will get hooked and buy one...

You have been warned

Enjoy the forum

Clive

[andyp]

Zethy

Just go and drive one. If it makes you smile buy the one with the best body you can. The rest is nuts and bolts.

My E gets used and abused for all sorts and apart from a loose fuel pump connection on the way home from collecting her she has never let me down.

I commute in her, go shopping in her, use her to deliver samples to our labs, and even take her out just for the fun of it.

Parts are available next day delivery and if anything does go wrong you can probably fix it with a screwdriver and a couple of spanners. The only computer you need is the one you use to visit this forum.

Andy

[Car-Nut]

Well said Andy

[Simon Templar]

Zethy,

I can only endorse what others have already said - These cars are high performance machines that need to kept at peak performance - If you can do the work yourself thats fine but if you need to use a pro it can get expensive as no job is as easy as it should be - Without any question the body is key - they rust everywhere - Make sure you buy one with a very good body and get it inspected by a professional that knows these cars inside out. Look at lots before you buy and drive as many as you can to get a feel for how they should drive - even a bad e type can seduce the unwary so proceed with care and you won't go too far wrong. Unless you are lucky enough to buy one that is used regularly and where all of the jobs have been done you should budget for other items that will need replacing - bushes, shocks etc etc. I bought my 4.2 series 1 FHC last October - body is great but because it had only done 1000 miles since restoration in 94 I have had to replace all sorts of items - brake servo, starter motor, HT leads, suspension bushes, shocks, brake discs, hoses, new wires and tyres etc etc - with upgrades such as uprated cooling, uprated calipers, larger servo, electronic ignition etc I have spent a further ?7000 on top of the ?28000 I paid - Next year the rear brakes will need doing which is another big job - At the end of it though I will have a fantastic car but I am also prepared to budget around ?1500 - ?2000 each year keeping it at peak performance -

The biggest hurdle to ownership is the financial one - If you can pass that, the rest is plain sailing - Remember that of the cars that the E type competed against it is the only one that is still relatively affordable - You need to be very wealthy to buy a Ferrari 250, or a 246 Dino or a Lambo Muira or an Aston DB4/5 and all would be more expensive to maintain than the E - I guess a lot more expensive. If they are looked after the E is a very reliable car.

If you want cheap classic motoring buy an MGB or if you want supercar performance with reliability buy a Honda NSX - I don't think either will give you as much fun or smiles per mile as an E type though - Buying into an icon is never going to be cheap but get it right and you will never regret it - I still go into the garage and simply look at mine - They are achingly beautiful - And remember with every other competitor looking so expensive, perhaps now really is the time to buy one before they too slip beyond reach.

Live the dream!

Simon Templar

[Heuer]

You need to be very wealthy to buy a Ferrari 250, or a 246 Dino or a Lambo Muira or an Aston DB4/5 and all would be more expensive to maintain than the E - I guess a lot more expensive. If they are looked after the E is a very reliable car.

Simon is spot on with his assessment. The E-Type is probably one of the few classic cars in the world you can take out into modern traffic and cover huge distances with impunity. I have looked at all the alternatives, including brief flirtations with a DB5 Volante, Bentley, Ferarri's and '63 300SL Roadster, but there is nothing else which will provide the ideal touring companion (startling performance, reliability, drop dead looks, joy of ownership). I have friends with all sorts of modern and classic exotica, including a Zonda, and none will contemplate accompanying my wife and I on our continental trips. Closest were the ones who followed us in their new 997 Turbo Cab to Normandy who were surprised it was totally ignored by everyone and had to be driven hard to keep up with the E-Type. It also damaged its front spoiler on the numerous speed bumps and cobbled streets - slower through towns than a push bike!

Everyone waves and gives way to the E-Type - it is universally loved and admired so it has multiple feel good factors going for it. I have just been flicking through the latest Classic Cars "50 cars you must own ..." supplement and I cannot find anything else that ticks all the boxes regardless of price. If anyone can think of anything I would be interested to hear it.

[MarkE]

Thanks for the invitation, David?I can think of a car that is as much fun, and considerably cheaper to buy and to run. It has cheeky looks, rather than drop dead gorgeous, has the same sort of performance, although top end is traded for agility?the cornering ability has to be experienced to be believed for a car of the 60s.

The E type wasn?t a competitor to Ferraris, Astons, Porsche or sports Mercedes when they were all new?they were in a totally different category being two or three times the price of an E Type. That makes the E type all the more remarkable.

My vote is for a companion to the E Type, the Lotus Elan. This wasn?t serious competition to the E type in the 60s, but it was an alternative for a few dedicated enthusiasts?for every 10 E Types made, only 1 Elan was produced. They were roughly the same price, had a similar presence on the race track and probably appealed to the same sort of buyer.

With a 5 speed box they will happily cruise at 100mph, and top out at 135mph?your hair will be pulled out before reaching the top speed though! Not as relaxing as the E Type to drive, but I?ve covered 800 miles a day in one on several occasions, which is even more remarkable as I?m well over 6 foot tall.

0 - 60mph in 6.5 seconds, and a maintenance bill that makes going down the pub for a lunch seem expensive. A good car can be bought for ?10k, a mint one for well under ?20k. Very easy to restore / maintain at home, and like the E Type, most everything is available for them.

They can also be made to be utterly reliable. They don?t rust, except for the chassis, which can be changed for a new one in a couple of weekends for less than ?2k.

OK, I?m very biased, having a fleet of these wonderful machines, and having owned one since 1975?still got it too. The most recent addition to the fleet is the yellow car below?2 owners from new, 52k on the clock, some paintwork needing attention, very reliable and on the road?.well under ?10k. That space in your garage is crying out for one, David (and I?m not selling any of mine!). All for the price of two or three sets of Italian E-type wheels. You know it makes sense.

[Heuer]

Great though the Elan is it would be no replacement for an E-Type (and I was thinking alternative rather than garage companion). Fantastic for tooling around local roads in a hooligan manner but if you are contemplating a 2,500 mile tour of Europe I doubt I would reach for the keys. Requirements are:

1. Carry two people in style and comfort
2. Carry enough luggage to support my wife's concept of style and comfort
3. Capable of sustained long distance cruising at 90mph, preferably roof down
4. Capable of tackling slower traffic, minor roads and Alpine passes with disdain and entertainment
5. To elicit smiles/waves from passers by and gather crowds, even in France
6. To guarantee a warm welcome in the best hotels and restaurants
7. To be able to park it anywhere you desire at the above because it makes their establishment look good
8. To do all the above reliably, without worry and at reasonable cost


Great little hotel near Limoges


Rush hour in the Loire

[MarkE]

Depends on your definitions, David. Addressing your list:

1. Depends on ?style??mass produced Jaguar vs hand built Lotus (don?t mention kit-car)
2. You have me there?can?t your wife adapt to a Prada rucksack?
3. No problems, and a greater distance between fuel stops. OK, perhaps not quite so comfy, but that?s OK for us youngsters :D
4. The Elan wins hands down
5. Exactly the same except they are probably trying to tell the Elan owner that something has dropped off
6. I find that?s down to me rather than the car
7. They like the car, but not usually the residual oil patch
8. The same, but at less cost.

But of course you?re right. The Elan is ideal for popping down to the newsagent on a Sunday morning to pick up the paper?.via Snowdonia! A 200 mile sprint is the ideal Elan scenario, although I did a European tour in one a couple of years ago?.don?t know how many miles we did in the 4 weeks, the speedo cable broke at Dover.

Drive it like you stole it.

[Simon Templar]

I must confess I do like the Elan - always have - No rust worries with one of those - The Elan +2 is a prettier car in my opinion than the 2 seat Elan but thats a matter of pinion. Mind you it always looked pretty good with Emma Peel behind the wheel - that might have been nothing to do with the car though.

I don't think the image is up there with the E even though they are a brilliant drive. I do take the point that competitors were more expensive but that really was down to Jaguars keen pricing rather than anything else - in terms of performance, comfort and looks they were in the same bracket as far as I'm concerned and had they had a Ferrari badge on the front they would have been 3 times as expensive - interested to know what other sports cars Jaguar were looking to take sales away from at the time - Any suggestions?


Simon

[MarkE]

I don?t think that there was competition for the E Type in the UK or Europe. Britain was virtually bankrupt and the only currency to chase was the US $, and the competition there was the glorious old ?Vette.

Jaguar had to upgrade the E Type purely for the American market?the S2 with it?s raised bumpers and lights, and when out-performed by the Corvette because of emission control requirements leading to twin Strombergs being fitted, the V12 was born.

So the E type, like the XK before it, and the Healey, TR & MGB, probably only came into being because of the American market and the state of the UK economy after WW2. They were the relatively low volume, but mass produced, sports cars that could be supplied in sufficient numbers to compete in the American market. And make a difference to the balance of payments. The AC, Aston, Peerless, Morgan, Lotus, Gilbern, TVR, Jensen, Marcos and Bristol were tiny niche players by comparison which were made to appeal to very small markets around the world, and not necessarily focused on US sales.

Apart from some of those niche players, I can?t think of a single competitor to the E Type in the UK.

So I reckon you have America and it?s Corvette to thank for the E Type!

[rodbargee]

Interesting comparing these two vehicles, I have only just bought my first E Type as seen in the welcome thread below :D I have had a Lotus which I lavished time money and frustration over for many years, on it's day it was a joy to drive, but overall it was a poorly built plastic car with a propensity to break things despite careful maintenance and restoration. Don't get me wrong as a pure driving experience few vehicles have come close for me. (self indulgent photo moment)



I also had a rare ISo Rivolta Lele



Seen here on its way to Australia, its the total opposite to the lotus, big brash, very powerful, bruising, but was lots of fun, it handled too if you had the commitment! Aston Martin sized but infinitely rarer with a big American engine, it got people looking but no one knew what it was.

I now find the new love in my life ( yes the E Type) is nicely poised half way between these extremes not as fragile as the Lotus but still poised enough to be fun and "push on" rewarding but also muscled enough to contemplate big GT tours with a reasonable chance of making it there under its own steam. The Iso had 360 bhp on tap but the downside of this huge urge was paid at the pump.

So for my money (whats left of it!) The E type fits the bill perfectly. Also if your buying a 40 year old car (for me anyway) the time I invest in it, is the fun part, spanner rash and all. It might not be the best one around (not by along chalk) but it is work in progress and does get me from A to B spectacularly :D


Sorry ...small footnote the lotus doesnt measure up well against vintage nuffield tractors either



Had to move on after this :( long story short ending

[MarkE]

We're going to have to have the story, Rod. Poor Plus 2! The front does make an excellent ramp for a tractor, and I've very nearly done the same thing with my old Cropmaster...stiff throttle, wet day, very slippery clutch and brake pedals....and the Cropmaster is fast!!

[rodbargee]

Mmm......... well ok here it is, My late father in law (nothing to do with the Lotus) had a farm, Ee' eye..... no don't. Anyway he was about eighty eight at the time and had, had both hips replaced but was somewhat stubborn in "re-calibrating" his physical ability shall we say.

So rather than climbing into the cab of the featured Nuffield (bloody quick for a tractor by the way)he decided it would be a good idea to start it while standing by the side of it (jump leads to the battery, start engine, disconnect leads,....THEN get into cab having avoided getting in and out twice!) But yes! You've guessed, it was in first gear low box, it started ok and crawled relentlessly up the front of the Lotus the driving wheels ripping the front off the car and the belly of the tractor completely destroyed the cab, wndscreen and whole integrity of the body, which does absorb all the impact over the whole vehicle

After having owned it for eleven years and replacing the chassis, engine re-build, box, trim, paint ,running gear, and SO much more I really didn't have the heart to start again so dismantled it and sold it off in bits It needed a new body and the galvanised chassis looked straight, but!? I couldn't justify the expense of getting a new body and all the bits it would need so the only way out financially was to get as much back as I could for the big valve head (QED block and engine work!!!)five speed box (Was a 2+2s130/5) and all the non crushed Lotus special unavailable bits gearbox castings hubs etc etc. I got about four grand back in the end for eleven years of input but as stated earlier the doing was the fun bit.

Note to the wise..... laid up insurance is not what its cracked up to be. Fire and theft and criminal damage was the policy......now I hear you say the damage was criminal!! but no it didn't count as criminal as it was "in his care" (their words) so to speak. the long and the short of it was that the only way forward was to sue the Father in law........not a good idea for future marital harmony I would suggest! so there we have it, or not, as it turned out :D Karma, lets not be bitter, it doesn't make one look nice :D