Forgery or rare?

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SimonP
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#1 Forgery or rare?

Post by SimonP » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:39 am

Hoping for some direction on this one. I am looking at buying a 1962 fhc 3.8. The data plate and stamp on the picture frame says the chassis/vin is 863881. These are both consistent but sits outside the documented etype numbers as noted on xkedata and original build sheet. Body number v3881. Engine number RA4842-8. Something is not adding up here. The car was renovated in 2010 and the data plate looks older and has old and new rivets holding it to the body.
Anyone had numbers sitting outside of the range for a rhd fhc?
Is there a oracle that I can check these numbers with?
Thanks in advance
SimonP

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abowie
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#2 Re: Forgery or rare?

Post by abowie » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:37 am

Having had a look at XKE Data, they don't think it's a valid number.

Where is the car?
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 3.4l Mk2. 1975 XJS.
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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abowie
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#3 Re: Forgery or rare?

Post by abowie » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:55 am

So looking at XKE data, there were 767 RHD 3.8 FHC's built.

Image

I may be wrong but the last RHD 3.8 FHC I can find on XKE Data is 861799

http://www.xkedata.com/cars/detail/?car=861799

Sure your plate doesn't say 860881?
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 3.4l Mk2. 1975 XJS.
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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mgcjag
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#4 Re: Forgery or rare?

Post by mgcjag » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:20 am

As Andrew has said above...863 is an odd number....you need a Heritage certificate..you could post photos here for a better response to originality etc...Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) & Building a C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc

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Simon P
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#5 Re: Forgery or rare?

Post by Simon P » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:17 am

Different 'Simon P', BTW.....

:geek2:
1969 S2 FHC - 1R20258
1993 Lancia Delta HF integrale Evo II

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Heuer
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#6 Re: Forgery or rare?

Post by Heuer » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:22 am

Post a photo of the data plate as we know the font used.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

Add your E-Type to our World Map: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1810

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SimonP
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#7 Re: Forgery or rare?

Post by SimonP » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:43 am

Thanks andrew and SimonP (I am sorry for using your handle)
The car is in Queensland and the picture window stamp and the data plate are both 863881. If it was 860881 it would be correct but both are definitely a 3. Diseased estate so there are some
Mysteries we may never solve. I will post a photo of the plate tomorrow once I have received a clear photo of the plate.
Thanks all for helping
Simon (p)

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Simon P
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#8 Re: Forgery or rare?

Post by Simon P » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:22 am

SimonP wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:43 am
Thanks andrew and SimonP (I am sorry for using your handle)
No problem. If you're a Simon P and you like E-types then that's a good thing to be in my book :bigrin:

Also, don't worry - if you're even vaguely mechanical people will soon figure out that it's you posting, not me!

:thumbsup:
1969 S2 FHC - 1R20258
1993 Lancia Delta HF integrale Evo II

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Gfhug
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#9 Re: Forgery or rare?

Post by Gfhug » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:58 pm

Two Simon Ps? Can the world cope :lol:
Is the topic title relevant? Is one a forgery, well not rare if there are two of you!

Welcome to the forum new Simon P, the best place for all things E Type. Good luck with hunting for a car.
We’ll have to call the other one Old Simon in future :wink:

Geoff
S2 FHC Light Blue
S2 OTS LHD - RHD full restoration

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JackD
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#10 Re: Forgery or rare?

Post by JackD » Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:28 am

I had a look at this car not too long ago, I also found the chassis number odd. I recall it not having its original engine either

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christopher storey
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#11 Re: Forgery or rare?

Post by christopher storey » Sat Aug 07, 2021 12:47 pm

abowie wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:55 am
So looking at XKE data, there were 767 RHD 3.8 FHC's built.

Image

I may be wrong but the last RHD 3.8 FHC I can find on XKE Data is 861799

http://www.xkedata.com/cars/detail/?car=861799

Sure your plate doesn't say 860881?
Andrew : the 767 merely refers to the number which are included on xkedata. The actual number built according to the table you have reproduced was 1798 . Curiously, even this does not tally with the chassis numbers listed on xkedata : the last one should be 861798 , but the register purports to include 861799 !
That does not alter the fact, however, that 863881 is well outside any conceivable correct number , and a further very odd/suspicious feature is the similarity between the purported body number and the purported chassis number : as far as I know body numbers ran in a sequence starting at V1001 and the sequence included both right and left hand drive cars, hence apart from about the first 6 cars ( which were all LHD ) there is rarely any similarity between the chassis and body numbers

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cactusman
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#12 Re: Forgery or rare?

Post by cactusman » Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:30 pm

I'd agree with the consensus....not a genuine number. I doubt you'll be much enlightened by a heritage certificate. From memory they ask for the chassis/VIN no as a minimum and your no won't exist...

Best case scenario....bitsa built up years ago and a chassis plate made up in full knowledge it was well outside the range and could not be confused with one of the 1798 cars made by jaguar...

Worst case....it's a stolen car with a fake plate and rail stamped to obscure it's real identity....! There is always a faint chance of other numbers scrawled in the car body that may give away it's true identity?

You might get somewhere by trying to find out what chassis no should belong belong to the engine no or gearbox no you have but how you would do this....not sure...
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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