Hello from an E type novice

[ian68]

Hi all,

Thought I would introduce myself having just joined this forum.
I have always, like so many, admired the E-type but never thought I would be in the position to actually own one. Traditionally I have always been a huge fan of another great british marque - Land Rover! and I currently own three.

I will however, be looking to buy my first 'E' probably in early summer next year, so I thought I would use the time between now and then to obtain some knowledge!

I already know I want a series 1 4.2 FHC. This i'm pretty fixed upon.
Having restored other vehicles, and despite having a pretty good/equipped workshop and the ability to weld/spraypaint etc etc I also know through experience that buying a basket case to restore is usually much more expensive than buying the best you can afford (unless that amounts to one and the same thing ).

So, to the first of what could (will) be many questions.

There seems to be a huge variation in prices for my desired model from what look like fairly tidy motors (on the surface anyway) for 20k, to obviously fully restored concourse examples at 100k+
Given what I have said about buying the best you can afford, I suppose my budget will be around the 30k mark.

In the experience of the forum members, what exactly could I expect for this figure in a genuine sale ? (ie not someone passing off a nail for big money)

I am not looking for a restoration project, but something that is solid, looks smart and that will hopefully just need TLC and regular servicing for a good few years before needing major work.

Am I deluding myself with my budget or will that figure get me what I want?

Your helpful advice please.

Many thanks,

Ian

[christopher storey]

Before the market turmoil , the consequences of which are very unpredictable, ? 30,000 would buy you a very decent, but probably not perfect, S1 4.2 FHC . The first point to note about these cars is that, AT THE MOMENT, virtually all parts are available. Also, these are really quite simple, albeit sophisticated, cars in mechanical terms . There are very few mechanical aspects which are difficult to put right . Accordingly, mechanical condition is of secondary importance, particularly if you are a capable mechanic yourself

The same most definitely does not go for the body . The bonnets tend to rot away , particularly the front underpan, and the tops above the wheels inboard and outboard of the wing to centre section join , and you need to budget about ? 4,500 for a new bonnet and fitting , plus painting. The engine/suspension/bonnet frames are of special tubing and both rot and crack . Very good new ones are available ( complete set about 1400 ) but are a pain to fit unless you dismantle the entire front end

The front bulkhead, to which the frames fit, is a vital component, as are the sill/floor junctions. Rotten floors and inner sills are common , and some quite good looking cars are in fact in very poor shape in this area . The rear chassis legs which go over the rear suspension and to which the rear suspension bolts are another vital area. All of these are replaceable, but at a cost. I have just spent about ? 18,000 to achieve what in effect is a completely new shell and bonnet, and there will be ?6K painting on top of this. Have a look on XKE data at car 1E20357 to see what I mean - and this was a car that was not terribly rotten but just badly bodged

Try and get a cutaway drawing of an E ( there are plenty in the Jaguar books ) , and look on the XKE data site and the various E type restoration sites eg CJ Classics , and you will get an idea of where you need to look. The body condition is everything, and the mechanical condition very much of secondary importance.

[kingzetts]

Hi, Ian, and welcome to the forum. You'll get lots of good advice here - I certainly have.

I joined with a similar plan to you (except I wanted an S1 OTS) - but I ended up buying one very soon after joining, so now my emphasis is on getting started with the fettling :) .

I agree with Christopher's comments, in the main - ?30,000 should get you a good example if you are careful. The problem is that it is a lot easier to find cars where the mechanicals are in much better shape than the body (precisely because mechanical work is so much easier and cheaper), whereas what everyone wants is the reverse. My advice (which I did not follow for myself ) is to have the discipline to have a full body inspection by someone who knows the model before you buy.

I also think that Christopher's point about the current financial situation is worth thinking over. There may well be a few people finding themselves forced to sell their cars over the next few months, while fewer people will probably choose this time to make a big discretionary purchase. This could well lead to a softening of prices and the opportunity for a few real bargains if you keep your eyes open.

[MarkE]

Hi Ian and welcome. Christopher and John have made the main point, buy one with good bodywork. I would (and did) go further and say buy one with good original and totally rust free bodywork?and they are still available. Both of my cars came from California, and were an absolute delight to restore. Neither had any body issues at all, and as the guys said above, the mechanical side for a 6 or 12 cylinder car is pretty straightforward to sort out in the UK.

The reason I bought them from California was that I couldn?t trust somebody else?s restoration, and I certainly couldn?t afford a ?100k Eagle E Type car (which, incidentally, they usually build from a solid rust free Californian donor). A car that hasn?t been painted for 25 or more years, if at all, tends not to hide anything.

There was a black coupe on US eBay 3 months ago that had its original paint, and one owner from new. It had been in California all its life. It had a few dings and dents, the interior and all the rubbers had dried up and it probably needed a mechanical renovation. It had no rust at all. It sold for $29k, or ?18k - ?19k landed here with the taxes paid. You?d have ?20k to play with before getting anywhere near ?negative equity?, which would have been plenty to turn that car into showroom condition.

Here?s an example on eBay right now. It?s not a coupe, but just to show that the sort of cars I?m talking about are available:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Jaguar-E ... 06.c0.m245

It?s described as ?untouched original condition except for respray??and it looks right.

If I was looking for another E Type, I would keep an eye on US eBay, hunt out a couple of dealers in California / Arizona / Texas, get a description of what I was after together and send it out to these guys, then get on a plane and go and inspect.

[Moeregaard]

Ian, welcome to the party. As others have said, there are no real mysteries associated with E-Types, as they are relatively simple cars. I think that the worst thing that can happen to a purchaser is to pay too much for a bodged restoration. A lot of sins can be hidden with paint, underseal and upholstery. The primary consideration is the bodyshell and fittings unique to the E-Type. Many mechanical components are straight from the Jaguar parts bin and readily available. I would not run away from a basket case, but only if it is absolutely complete and with a good bodyshell.

Some comment is needed regarding California cars. The majority of E-Types sold in this state seem to have gone to Los Angeles and up the coast. The climate gets progressively wetter as we go north and that "California car" in San Francisco can have a surprisingly amount of tinworms. Any E-Type that is suspected of ever residing in a beach town needs to be looked over very carefully. My current car spent most of its life near the coast, and while the sills and firewall are solid, the boot floor and footwells are due for replacement.

[MarkE]

Moe, you?re absolutely right. Not all cars from California are going to be mint?far from it. There are going to be rusty ones, and bent ones that haven?t been fixed properly. But it?s still the best hunting ground in the world for E Types, XKs, Healeys, TRs and the other Brit cars that, over here, were often scrapped when they were less than 10 years old, they got that bad. In the early 70s, when I was getting into cars, an E Type could be bought for ?200 or ?300. It would only last another few months, and would inevitably end up in the scrap yard after a few months of fun, and usually a rather scary experience.

To restore an average UK 1950s / 1960s sportscar, that?s been used in all weathers here in the UK, a socket set or spanners doesn?t help. You need an angle grinder. I?ve restored cars where virtually every nut and bolt is rusted together, and the only option it to cut, and often with the surrounding area of metal. At best you can end up with a patchwork quilt, and many E Types have been rebuilt where the only original panel left is the firewall?and that?s had some repairs. Even when the body has been well preserved, there is often rust in the panel lips and joins, which means re-skinning or at the very least, extensive patchwork.

Your car, with solid sills and needing floors, would be regarded as a very rare survivor over here. Super original and highly desirable, and you?re holding it up as an example of how E Types can rust in California! You?re spoilt for choice.

Here?s a reminder of what an E Type from a damp and salty climate can look like?.

[Heuer]

Mark

Never mind the car what about those great wheels and tyres in the background. I wonder if they would make the steering too heavy?

[harryetype]

Do you think I could make them fit an E???

[Moeregaard]

I wish I'd taken photos of the Series One 2+2 I saw sitting in someone's drive, when working on the island of Kauai in 2001. This thing made the primrose OTS above look like an easy restoration. So much sheet metal was missing I wondered how all the wheels remained pointed in the same direction. The car was obviously a non-runner, but I could tell the owner had good intentions: a single can of WD-40 was sitting behind the left-rear wheel.

[ian68]

Thanks guys for all your replies, very helpful. Had not really thought about an American car as I would certainly want a RHD and i'm not sure I want the hassle and expense of having it converted.

I think I will spend the time between now and next summer learning as much as I can and picking everyone's brains! I'm assuming that some of you take your cars to shows? I will keep an eye out in the spring for any upcoming shows and try to get to a few to chat to some owners in person.

Although early days for me, is there anyone/company you can recommend who knows their onions and who would come to look a car over with me and what the approx charge would be?

Looking forward to developing my 'E' knowledge over the coming months!

Regards,

Ian

[MarkE]

Chaps...wide wheels? No problem. Bet this one handled like a dream.



Now then Ian, you don't want the hassle and expense of converting LHD to RHD eh?

How about ?1000 and 2 days labour for conversion vs. ?20k to ?40k to make a rust free E Type from a rusty one? And a year or two or three of hassle.

If the best E Types sell for ?100k, and they are so simple to fix up mechanically, the money has to go somewhere. I spent about ?15k getting my coupe sorted mechanically, doing maybe a third of the work myself, and having the rest done professionally and with the best components available. That included the engine and all ancillaries, the gearbox, propshaft, differential, suspension, brakes, all the electrics, instruments, chrome, rubbers and all the bits and pieces in a total nut and bolt restoration to factory specification.

I can't see how you can spend more than ?25k refurbishing an E mechanically...every nut and bolt, and with full cosmetics to factory standard. Then add ?6k for the best re-trim available. The rest is bodywork and paintwork, so for a ?100k E Type, that's the best part of ?70k, less the value of the un-restored car, which is maybe ?10k - ?15k for a coupe, ?15k - ?20k for an ots.

A lot of hassle, and a hell of a lot of ????. Buy a rust free car!!!!

[HarryW]

Hi Ian. I was at your stage about a year ago. If you haven't got it already, buy Peter Crespin's book 'The essential Buyer's Guide - Jaguar E Type 3.8 & 4.2 litre' - it often pops up on ebay. I made my own check list from this to help cover any car I looked at as systematically as possible. I'll email it to you if you wish. :)

[Moeregaard]

I'd like to add the Haynes' E-Type manual to the list of worthwhile books. It's been out of print for several years, but new examples seem to come up on eBay regularly. Another is the Robert Bentley manual, which also has the factory special tuning manual reprinted at the back. Either of these publications will familiarize a prospective owner with the E-Type's mechanical bits.

[Heuer]

Thanks Moe, I will add them to the Reference Books list.

[Moeregaard]

Thanks, David. The Bentley manual was also unavailable for some time, but I believe it's back in print and available from the usual suspects. I'll look into this further and post my results.