HOPEFULLY TUESDAY WILL BE THE END OF THE ELECTRIC CAR.....

[gtjoey]

Or its proper place as a novelty...
Time for the call out, I like some like the I Pace, but the scam or taxing US and not up to par hopefully will all come to an end on tuesday after the elections....HOPEFULLY.
GTJOEY1314

[golfnut324]

You are more optimistic than I am GT. One election won't stop a religious movement.

[gtjoey]

Prayer is very powerful!
My buddy bought the new F150 lightning
He can afford anything
He just wanted it to see what the hype was about
After 95000 purchase price
4,500 for booster charger at home
4,500 booster for weekend house and fighting with 2 town boards for special 300 volts cable lines
No insurance if parked IN his garage due to possible battery fires…..
No grid even using the I map on his phone
His words
It’s a scam…..
Gtjoey1314
Pray

[Series1 Stu]

Surely, you would research all that stuff before you shell out that kind of money?

[Durango2k]

Is this politics ? If so, I‘ll tell ya a secret- oil is a finite resource:-/

Carsten

[chrisfell]

Leaving the politics aside (which appears to be more of a polarising feature on the west side of the pond than here in Blighty) two things are certain:-
1. The oil age will come to an end, which will also kill the internal combustion engine as a power source.
2. As things currently stand, with an infrastructure unprepared for a mass switch to electric propulsion, and storage of energy (batteries) being so massive, bulky and slow to refill, electric cars vans and lorries are not an immediate solution.
That is today.
Tomorrow will be different. Someone may invent a new energy storage medium that is as dense and light as petrol. Or a new technology for power production. Or a new device for personal locomotion. Or a new technology for making electricity in huge quantities on demand. But that will be tomorrow.

I have two friends both recent converts to electric cars. Both individuals have short fuses. Both suffer when driving great distances from range anxiety (which manifests as rage - short fuses). Both hate their electric cars.

In order to fully use this new technology they will have to abandon the reliance we all have in the reliability of supply of energy whenever we need it. We do not have to plan our longer journeys to access fuel dumps as we travel. They will be there, somewhere one will be open, the fuel we need will be there. Not so with electricity. Fuel supply is still fragmentary and unreliable. Servicing of the stations is poor, and when one is available the rate of transfer of energy is slow, several hours instead of a few minutes to achieve enough energy to travel to the next fuel dump.

To use this new-ish technology to its best advantage it is essential to do due diligence. Long journeys need to be planned, plans need to have redundancy built in, and a plan b or c available. We are still in the toddler stage, we cannot run just yet.

New-ish technology? More than 100 years ago London had a fleet of electric charabancs (charabangs). They had cassettes of lead acid batteries. When one vehicle had done a round it returned to base, changed battery packs, and did another round. The project failed, not because it didn't work because it did. It was very successful. Too successful, it attracted the wrong kind of interest. It failed due to greed and corruption.

[christopher storey]

two things are certain:-
1. The oil age will come to an end, which will also kill the internal combustion engine as a power source.

A bit dogmatic. The use of hydrogen is perfectly feasible in IC engines, and indeed BMW ran a whole fleet of them in the 1980s/90s.What is more problematic is the production of H2 on the scale required

...but then, so is the production of additional electricity

[gtjoey]

This is now the 200th fire this YEAR! In NYC
This one was a battery motorcycle for deliveries
My buddy that bought the F150 makes a BILLION dollars a year in royalties and he is still pissed off!
It’s a novelty , oil will end but that’s about 300 years
Let’s worry about it sayyyy. 110 years from now

[chrisfell]

"A bit dogmatic"
Agreed. But my comment was intended to mean that something better will replace oil as an energy source or storage medium, rather than we will suddenly run out of oil. The oil age will end, just as the stone age did, the bronze age, the iron age.......

And it will as likely come from an existing by-product repurposed as from a newly created or discovered technology.

[Heuer]

So, if the demand for oil drops off a cliff we are never likely to run out? Plenty to spare and make into various fuels. It is also likely to be really cheap.

[DWW]

Flawed logic, a drop in demand will cause higher prices and may not make economical sense to produce any longer in large scale…

[Heuer]

The supply vs demand equation says the opposite. When Russia reduced the supply of gas the cost rocketed but now supply has increased from other sources the cost is dropping rapidly.

With oil the infrastructure is all there and cost is driven by demand. If that drops they will try and stimulate demand by dropping prices. Oil producers have no other option as long as the selling price covers their costs + a bit of profit. The stuff just oozes out of the ground and it is difficult to stop once started.

[caveman]

The concept of supply and demand is fairly straightforward. As demand increases (or supply decreases) the price should go up. As demand decreases (or supply increases) the price should go down. Not quite. The price of oil is actually set in the oil futures market.
An oil futures contract is a binding agreement that gives one the right to purchase oil by the barrel at a predefined price on a predefined date in the future. Under a futures contract, both the buyer and the seller are obligated to fulfill their side of the transaction on the specified date.
One factor in determining oil prices is sentiment. The belief that oil demand will increase dramatically at some point in the future can result in a dramatic increase in oil prices in the present, as speculators snap up oil futures contracts. The opposite is also true. The belief that oil demand will decrease in the future can result in a decrease in prices in the present as oil futures contracts are sold (possibly sold short as well).

[Allrand]

Still a basic supply/demand equation, the futures market just takes a longer term view.

[Durango2k]

Yes, including more irrationality sometimes…

Carsten

[Spilltop]

Is this politics ? If so, I‘ll tell ya a secret- oil is a finite resource:-/

Carsten

Shhhhh

[Durango2k]

Ok,

I have to correct myself- say „Dino oil is „ finite ressource“ but we can brew E-fuels, at cost, and make our own“.

Carsten

[JerryL770]

. . . . . and then there's the politics re: fuel tax!

[Monkeyfinger]

Not sure anyone has yet commented who actually owns an electric vehicle or has done serious mileage in one, but forgive me if you have.

I'm in the UK and my daily driver is a Tesla Model 3 - unquestionably the best car I have ever owned, in terms of a total package. I've owned the car over 2 years now, and have only charged away from home once in that time, for a 500 mile round trip. I have a home charger that cost around £500. All of my typical journeys tend to not exceed 200 miles, which it comfortably achieves. The car has required nothing in that time other than screen wash - I will admit that my miles are lower as a retired person, but it has turned out to be the perfect vehicle for us. Total 'fuelling' cost last year was £39, which won't even fill the tank on the Jag, or my wife's Mini Cooper come to that. I haven't even mentioned the performance - my previous cars (including Mercedes AMG and BMW M5), pale against how easily progress can be made in the Model 3. Of course it doesn't have the same visceral experience that cars such as an E Type can conjure up, but as a transport package, I would find it hard to beat.

I would urge people to not recycle the same old rhetoric that the press love to go on about, and is based on sensationalism - I'm afraid that whatever everyone thinks, these cars will at the very least be the medium term future of motoring. longer term, who knows, but we will have to wait and see.

As a final word, I bought the car based upon a test drive, not my environmental concerns or anything like that - it is a total delight to drive and own.

[mgcjag]

And here for comparison posted on piston heads recentlya Scotland trip........about the same equivelant mpg as an E type