Mig welder advice

[christopher storey]

Geoff - another 5 years on, I stand by my recommendation to use flux coated wire rather than gas. You would be astonished at the amount of gas you use - the hobby bottles last no time at all, and cylinder rental on the proper bottles is expensive unless you are using it all the time . And, there is no fiddling with the regulator , and you can use it outside without the gas shield blowing away ( this is really quite important unless you have a dedicated area for welding, free from anything which may be harmed by sparks) , and the results whilst not perfect, tend to be consistently better for the ham fisted like me

[vee12eman]

Hi,

Some thoughts. I had two 130 amp MIG welders and did every kind of job with them. The first was badged as a Snap-On, the second as Sealey. Both were virtually the same , slight differences in the cases to accommodate wheels and a support for a larger (still fairly small) bottle on the Sealey. Torches were similar but the trigger on the Sealey was better until I broke it very early on and actually had to do a bodge repair which I always intended to fix but didn’t for over 18-20 years (!). I restored about three cars fully on the first, which then stopped working. I was getting married and looking for cash so I sold it and later found it was repaired by removing a bit of grit which had got into the trigger- a free repair. My near identical Sealey unit eventually failed when the bodged trigger repair gave up. In fact it still worked, but gas leaked from the mechanical gas valve built into the trigger and I couldn’t fix it. That welder lasted years, restoring (completely) a GT6, Herald, E-type, Toledo and a Mini. Additionally it was used for countless minor tasks along the way, plus did a partial restoration of my current Austin Utility project - an enormous job, now being completed with a newer, 200 amp Cigweld unit. The Sealey was used to make an engine crane and the rotisserie for the E-type and both saw long successful service, in fact the rotisserie supported the E-type on a trailer when moving house over around 200 miles of driving on a trailer, showing no signs of any damage/failure. All 3-4 mm box section.

Both units were clearly built to almost identical spec and I believe were licensed versions of The Italian Cebora brand 130 amp welder, which was often produced under license with names like “Mighty MIG”. At one time it seemed half or more of the hobby range of welders on offer were almost identical to mine, albeit with lots of different brand names. Italian, and particularly Cebora welders seemed to rule the market in Europe, all with good or very good reputation.

After the final failure of the torch, the Sealey unit stood and gathered dust as I could not bear to chuck it out, then a friend of mine wanted to learn welding so I gave it to him. A new torch and it’s back in use, having recently made his side car frame, among other things.

Italian welders seem to be of great quality, well respected and I have great excellent experiences of my two. My new Cigweld 200 amp unit with Euro torch, plus TIG and Stick functions, is wonderful, albeit more expensive. Some issues in finding a suitable supply (15 amp requirement where local norm is a 10 amp supply), but if on a budget I’d buy either of my two original units again. I think the Clarke range is based on them, but it’s been a few years since I looked at the UK market.

Regarding helmets, yes definitely use an auto darkening unit of good quality. These were the best thing they ever came along for welding, but you still need good, well directed lighting and I used to use halogen floodlights which broke easily, now of course LED floodlights rule. With those well directed you should be able to see, a small point is to prevent light leakage from behind the helmet - just ensure the floodlight does not shine into the helmet or your eyes won’t adjust.

Argon/CO2 mix had an instant beneficial effect on my welding, although CO2 is fine as well, but I found better penetration and cleaner welds. I now have a bottle from the local major DIY store with a deposit and free rental, which I exchange when required. The deposit is refunded when I return it, should I ever do so. Much cheaper for the hobby user than the full blown BOC rental I used to have, but locally, BOC now offer a similar service.

As to welding outside, there’s no reason at all why you have to have gas less. People welded with MIG outside long before gas less came along. I believed the flux actually creates a gas itself, which is just as likely to be blown away by wind, though with no real experience of the type, my understanding may be incorrect. Either way you can weld with gas outside if it’s not windy, with no worries, as the wind increases, increase gas flow, if it’s a gale, I doubt any unit would work well. I have welded outside on several occasions.

The lack of use and practice having an effect is definitely true, so set up and practice each time. Use a clean tidy area and THINK before striking the first arc. I had a lucky escape when I set fire to a coat I was wearing prior to welding once. I set everything up clean and tidy on a cold day, then took off the coat and thoughtlessly put it down in the footwell, unfortunately I was welding the other side and it caught light easily and burned well. Fortunately I was warned by a mate who saw the fire. I was prepared with both water (little effect on the fire) and a BCF extinguisher (now illegal) which was instant in effect. Scrap one interior, but no one hurt. Long, long time ago and I was young and impatient, but I learned. Welding can be dangerous.

All the best,

Simon

[Thor]

I bought a froniues mig welder new 20 years ago to restore a 356 cabriolet and it still works perfectly.the cheaper machines are mostly throw away junk especially for beginners they will keep blowing fuses and eventually melt the torch and relays.spend a wee bit more and keep it longer !

[christopher storey]

As to welding outside, there’s no reason at all why you have to have gas less. People welded with MIG outside long before gas less came along. I believed the flux actually creates a gas itself, which is just as likely to be blown away by wind, though with no real experience of the type, my understanding may be incorrect. Either way you can weld with gas outside if it’s not windy, with no worries, as the wind increases, increase gas flow, if it’s a gale, I doubt any unit would work well. I have welded outside on several occasions.

The flux coated wire was developed especially for outside welding, because the gas shield blew away before it reached the arc, whereas the flux is at the point of the arc and thus excludes oxygen

[abowie]

Chicks dig a man with a welder.

[Gfhug]

Steve, Christopher, Simon and especially Andrew ( ) thank you for your thoughts. All very useful advice regarding the machines, lighting, practice and safety.
The welding will be in the garage with one end having my on the road FHC and the other the project car where I will do the welding and other dirty tasks.
Will also look at the Italian makes, searching online it is surprising how similar they can look which reflects Simon's comments.

Thank you all very much.

Geoff

[mgcjag]

Hi Geoff.....make sure you have a good extinguisher.....and after welding dont close up you garage for at least an hour......not long ago a friend finnished welding and his actual helmet was on fire a short while after he had stopped.....Steve

[Gfhug]

Steve, thank you for the warning.
I could wish it was an aluminium car, riveting in a new patch of ali is so much easier and less fraught with danger!

All this is making me consider a mobile tig welder as there’s not much more than a day’s work in total. And I’d not need to find storage space for all the kit as the garage is already full enough

Geoff

[mgcjag]

Hi Geoff....the amount of time you will be practicing it would be worth getting someone in......its all good practicing on a flat surface but as soon as you try to go vertical its a different ballgame.....Steve

[malcolm]

All this is making me consider a mobile tig welder as there’s not much more than a day’s work in total. And I’d not need to find storage space for all the kit as the garage is already full enough

Geoff

Is it worth considering hiring a machine? If it's only a days work, it won't cost much. You'll have no storage issues, and it will give you a chance to see what it's like if you do then decide to buy.

[mystery type]

I bought my welder over 30yrs ago, a cheap version from machine mart, I remember reading in practical classics about how good the flux coated wire was for beginners so that’s what i bought.
I have used it many many times over the years and it has never let me down.
(Although when using others with gas, I do find my efforts are better) but for the limited amount of time I actually do welding, the flux coated wire is perfectly fine.

[Gfhug]

Malcolm, that is a consideration, thank you. It'll come down to working out the cost of hiring and the practice required to get to a good standard before committing to work on the car.
An experienced welder could do all the work within a day. I would get all things jury rigged up so that all that would need doing is the actual welding with little wasted time on the day. And a good TIG welder would leave joints that need little dressing, which would be unlike my efforts

In the New Year I'll call a few local welding equipment suppliers to see if they can recommend someone, then do a bit of costing out of the options.

Again, many thanks to all for the suggestions and advice. This forum is excellent for that.

Geoff

[MSM]

This is a very interesting thread which I have just discovered. Although I have a MIG welder, before reading this I had not heard of gasless MIG welding. Having now done a little research it would seem that one of the disadvantages of the process is the amount of smoke and fumes produced compared with using argon or CO2. Can anyone comment on this please? Does it make it more difficult to see the weld pool?

It would also seem to be possible to get flux COATED or flux CORED welding wire. Is one better that the other or is it a case of horses for courses?

Happy New Year everyone.

[vee12eman]

The flux coated wire was developed especially for outside welding, because the gas shield blew away before it reached the arc, whereas the flux is at the point of the arc and thus excludes oxygen

That’s interesting, thanks Christopher, I didn’t know that. Nevertheless I maintain from experience that welding outside is perfectly possible and structurally sound when using a gas type machine as long as common sense is used to prevent shielding gas blowing away. Obviously on windy days with no shelter available, gas shielded welding is likely to be compromised. My biggest consideration when welding outdoors was usually how to prevent others overlooking me and risking arc eye.

Regards,

Simon.