Jaguar are losing the plot!

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Heuer
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#1 Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by Heuer » Sun May 02, 2021 7:50 pm

This was just posted on J-L:
Image

Storm clouds are gathering!
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

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mgcjag
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#2 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by mgcjag » Sun May 02, 2021 7:57 pm

What a situation for a company like JLR to get their selfs in :banghead:
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) & Building a C type replica

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#3 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by Heuer » Sun May 02, 2021 8:25 pm

Not sure Porter has his facts right as if someone produces original artwork they are free to profit from it, regardless of subject.
David Jones
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vee12eman
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#4 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by vee12eman » Sun May 02, 2021 11:54 pm

I tried to send an email to JLR to tell them that I was no longer interested in their product due to the clear lack of interest in actual enthusiasts rather than cashed up investors or those interested in status symbols. I could not find an email address that would accept the email. I either had to register as a corporate organisation, fleet buyer or I could send in an innovative idea. The first two were not possible for me as I did not meet the necessary requirements, so I sent it as an “innovative idea” (as in, here’s an innovative idea, stop persecuting enthusiasts and potential customers), several times from different devices on different applications, but it was rejected as undeliverable from all of them.

I recently bought a new car, but didn’t look at Jaguar at all and yes, the car would be considered a direct competitor.

They’ve lost me.
Simon S-Y
Series III FHC

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#5 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by AussieEtype » Mon May 03, 2021 2:09 am

I don't disagree with any of the sentiments expressed about the ethical behaviour of JLR - a public relations disaster, but at the end of the day they did win the court case and all aspects were considered so there must have been something to the JLR case and something wrong with the Defendants case.

I drive Land Rovers as my everyday drivers, and will continue to do so but increasing costs of new products may prevent that.
1971 Series 3 E-type OTS

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#6 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by christopher storey » Mon May 03, 2021 7:29 am

Aussie : the court case was really of no significance at all - it was in Sweden's equivalent of the County Court , and has no binding effect anywhere else. As far as artwork is concerned , I am sure that David ( heuer ) has it correctly . Otherwise, every time I photographed my E types I would effectively be breaching JLR's intellectual property rights , - indeed every photograph or other depiction of almost any manufactured article would be a breach - and this is so obviously a nonsensical proposition that it hardly needs consideration

As for JLR , it saddens me to say this , but frankly I think they are finished. The products have lost their distinctive attributes and looks, and the horrible van like objects hold no attraction for anyone, and what should have been their volume seller in the XE has been the most awful flop, and whether electric cars are a blind alley we shall have to see, but current experience is very discouraging

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#7 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by steve3.8 » Mon May 03, 2021 11:52 am

Add also the issue of the Castle Bromwich and Halewood factories being closed -
Production suspended - due to lack of computer chips apparently , not looking good. :helpsos:
Steve3.8

64 3.8 fhc, 67 4.2 fhc

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#8 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by Joes66 » Mon May 03, 2021 3:41 pm

Jaguar is a foreign owned company
What did people expect
They don't care one jot about the fan base
Just like football clubs and all the rest if the corporate world
We are little people
Welcome to the all new victorian age of demolition man
Joe
1969 series 2 2+2

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#9 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by johnetype » Mon May 03, 2021 4:26 pm

The car industry is incredibly competitive with wafer thin margins. You either go large or niche. Ford and then Tata bought into the go large mantra - aka Audi - for Jaguar; they've tried the go large route - witness XE - and now are trying go niche with luxury electric. Time will tell how it plays out but in the meantime large factories like Castle Bromwich and Halewood cost money.

Porsche have it right, they produce proper quality cars and have a large car maker beside them to share parts and development costs.

Companies have other assets, call it the family silver if you like. IPR and past icons can be turned into realisable cash but only if you can protect them - witness M&S and Aldi over caterpillar cakes or the Glazier brothers and Man United. It's debatable if it's worth a candle if any rulings you receive are unenforceable but if you haven't tried to assert your ownership you certainly won't win any rulings. Banks and Shareholders need company value (or at least perceived company value) to stay on board.

It's not that they don't care about the enthusiasts or all the C, D and E type owners, it's just that we're not buying enough of today's Jaguars to worry about if we don't like the direction the company is taking. When you're a drowning man...............
John

1969 Series 2 FHC

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#10 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by caveman » Mon May 03, 2021 5:25 pm

johnetype wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 4:26 pm
Porsche have it right, they produce proper quality cars
:yeahthat:

Recently sold my RR Vogue Autobiography to get back into the German marque for the third time. All things considered, nothing enticed me to visit JLR for a replacement.
Steve
1965 S1 4.2 FHC

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#11 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by Heuer » Mon May 03, 2021 6:08 pm

When I read about lawyers circling and making a big fuss over cease and desist orders it only means one thing - they are preparing the company for a sale. They are building up the value of any IP and creating the aura of a bullish company.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

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#12 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by PeterCrespin » Tue May 04, 2021 6:28 pm

I learned a new word today which seems to fit.”Doomscrolling.”

I see the British proclivity for self-immolation has returned like the next wave of cicadas due any day here in Maryland after a 17 year pause. I was appalled to witness the wholesale devastation of what could be loosely termed metal-bashing industries in the seventies and eighties. One was regarded as almost subnormal for advocating home firms and and there was a stratum of society that gloried in putting down their fellows.

I think there’s a huge difference between disagreeing with a corporate business strategy and actively undermining the biggest employer of technical graduates and a preeminent R&D investor. It appears that some who have vowed ‘ne plus jamais’ would gleefully dance on Jaguar’s grave. I dissent from the groupthink on display here, whilst agreeing in large measure with (and donating towards) the Magnusson’s legal appeal.
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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#13 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by dxke38 » Tue May 04, 2021 7:22 pm

Likewise Peter. I worked for a Leyland main agent in the early seventy's and with the strikes, the oil crisis and the general car public knocking anything British its no wonder we lost most of our motor industry. I would have hoped for a more loyal attitude from Jaguar enthusiasts now. Having said that, I can see why people are shocked at the way Jaguar are trying to protect the product from imitation ,but it's much like any designer product.
Derek
64 ser 1 fhc, 71 ser 3 2+2.

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#14 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by Durango2k » Thu May 06, 2021 5:04 am

Being too young to have whitnessed it, I can of course not argue - all what I know comes from media.

Clarkson said „it was them all“,- the products were not up to international competition, many strikes, bad decision from gov and industry leaders, oil crisis - was / is he wrong ?

At Citroen, it was bad management (no mid size car), selling the same old stuff for too long (DS safari with fins in the back looking like 1958 in 1975), costly tangos like the SM, plus the Wankel adventure, buying competitors, and then came the oil crisis and just for a rather tiny amount they blew up and fell to Peugeot, gov did not want to loan any more francs.

Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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#15 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by johnetype » Thu May 06, 2021 9:00 pm

I did witness it.

Clarkson was not wrong but Jaguar have always added to their own woes by not addressing the quality bogey.

Consistent cost cutting relative to their market sector will be their ultimate downfall.
John

1969 Series 2 FHC

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#16 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by Series1 Stu » Fri May 07, 2021 9:19 am

There's nothing wrong with cost cutting - every successful organisation needs to do it to remain competitive. It's corner cutting that is to be abhorred.

Have you not noticed the reduction in build quality of all the premium marques? The exposed screw heads that would previously have been disguised, for instance?

I'm not sure where JLR are going with these moves. Surely they should be flattered that others want to pay tribute to their past glories. You can be sure that any C, D or E-Type replicas that JLR build will be beautiful but ultimately un-usable (or at least un-used) on the road.

:shrug:

Regards
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

'62 FHC - Work In (slow) Progress
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#17 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by tinworm » Fri May 07, 2021 5:30 pm

Seems to me that Jaguars future may belong (somewhat) to the past - if you see what I mean - the old cars become more important to the income stream..

Barrie
1968 E-type roadster, 1964 E-type fixed head 1995 Ferrari 355 1980 Ferrari 308 1987 V8 90 Landrover 1988 Bedford rascal van 1943 Ford GPW

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#18 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by christopher storey » Fri May 07, 2021 5:42 pm

johnetype wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:00 pm


Jaguar have always added to their own woes by not addressing the quality bogey.

That has not always been the case : the quality in the 1950s and indeed up to the late 1960s was really good, in both mechanical , bodily, and interior furnishings . It was with the increase in volume which coincided with the industrial strife of the 1970s that things went downhill for a protracted period up to the 1990s

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#19 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by Fuel.inj » Fri May 07, 2021 7:30 pm

Quality does seem to be poorer these days especially Mercedes. They look good when new with all the bells and whistles, but the high quality build and materials used on the 190e series for instance is not used today. I still miss my old 190e and if I can find a really nice one then I would be tempted.
Paul.
1971 S2 FHC (Opalescent Blue)
2007 Land Rover Defender
A number of Nortons.
1939 Triumph T100

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#20 Re: Jaguar are losing the plot!

Post by Durango2k » Fri May 07, 2021 7:54 pm

Or a W124 leave alone the indestructible car… the W123, sometimes called the „full metal merc“.

Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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