Car Valuations

[ChrisC]

I notice that the Etype Club offers a car valuation service which I probably need to reflect in my insurance cover....

Will Insurance companies accept valuations from Etype specialists as well? I would like to obtain a few valuations before I decide what the insurable value should be...

I know how much the car has cost me to rebuild but all the labour is mine so I have no real feel for its value.

ANyway - thats beside the point - any ideas whose valuation the insurance companies will accept?

[Heuer]

Any recognised Classic Car dealer will be acceptable supported by half a dozen photos.

[daverawle]

They will not accept a valuation from someone who has worked on the car; told me by Footman James.

Dave

[Heuer]

Odd - you would have thought someone who worked on the car was the one person best placed to value it!

[christopher storey]

The JEC service is very efficient if you are a member . If you talk to Graham Searle beforehand he will advise you what figures to put on the form, and is very happy in my experience to discuss the trends in valuations which are invaluable guidance. Given the JEC is also far and away the largest club, it probably also has the largest database

[Heuer]

But are the figures they give realistic? Some people/clubs are in denial of what these cars are really worth preferring to believe you can replace your pride and joy very easily. Someone posted here that they sold their OTS to a dealer for ?73k and it is now on sale for ?99,950 so which is the 'true' value - the selling price or the replacement value?

[christopher storey]

David : it is a vexed question which you pose. The problem is that there is one dealer in particular, who to my knowledge almost always deals in inferior stock, who prices his cars 25 to 50% above realistic levels . There was also a car which to my knowledge twice changed hands in arms' length transactions for prices in the ?35 - 40K range which within months was advertised at ?89,500 . But it has never sold , and is merely hawked around the trade at ever increasing asking prices . There is another particular car, a different type of Jaguar , which gets passed from trader to trader at ever( but rather more slowly) increasing asking prices , and again , has never sold. This is clear evidence to me of a false market in these cars, and I do not believe that the insurers are unaware of this . One only has to go to auctions, which I do more or less monthly, to see that the true values at which these cars can be sold are far less than these inflated asking prices . Far better in my view to have a proper valuation which the insurers will not seek to resile from if a claim arises, than an inflated value which may well bring litigation in its wake if a loss occurs

[Heuer]

But that is my point. If you buy at auction you are relying on either your own eyes or that of a friend and neither of you will have driven the car or had it on ramp, whereas the company who services it has. Indeed the JEC only have your word for it (I assume they don't see the car) about the true condition or underlying problems. Incidentally my insurer does not seem to insist the car is surveyed by someone who has not worked on it. The only stipulation is "recognised classic car dealer or specialist". When I queried this they said they know when to ask for a second valuation depending on the dealer you chose In my case I bought my ?lan from Paul Matty and it was Paul who did the valuation, and this was acceptable to my insurer (I checked).

[christopher storey]

David : the last case I saw was an S1 4.2 OTS at Brightwells which was newly restored with a full photographic record . The problem with it was that it was in an S3 colour , but nevertheless the best bid was in the low 30Ks . There are a few, rare, cars, which fetch extravagant prices, but all normal cars, which frankly I believe constitutes 99% of those which come for sale, fetch more conservative levels. 60k yes. 100+k , no . And as I say, it is far better to have a conservative claim which is paid without question, than an extravagant claim which is refused

Part of the problem arises from the bubbles which have arisen in e.g DB5s . This is a very special market, which arose becuase of the obsessional interest of a single particular buyer, and which , when the obsession passes, may well evaporate as quickly as it arose . People think that the E, as a more attractive car, will emulate the DB5 , but for reasons which I cannot divulge, this is unlikely to happen

[MarkE]

I go to many auctions as well, and the E Types I?ve seen go through seem to fall into one of two camps. They are either fresh restorations which appear to be home attempts with major faults completed by enthusiastic amateurs, or they are tired cars needing some refurbishment, if not a total restoration. I have never seen a perfect car, as would come out of CMC, at any of the auctions I have attended.

I saw a red OTS S1 going through Brightwells about 6 months ago, and although it looked stunning from 15 foot away, close up the clearances were all over the place. It had obviously had a lot of metalwork (it was an original RHD!) and the car was bent in the middle, with no gap at the top of the door and half an inch at the bottom. There was glue over the upholstery, and ripples down the side of the over-glossy red bodywork. Goodness knows what it was like mechanically. It fetched ?32k from memory, which was a huge amount for a car that genuinely needed pulling apart and doing again, properly.

No doubt some cowboy could have taken the angle grinder to the tops of the doors and brazed in the bottoms to make the gaps look right, at least from the outside, and made a few bob.

My point it, the value of the car depends upon the model AND condition?.obviously. If you go to any E type meeting, I would guess that 1 in 20 or 30 cars look absolutely right. The vast majority, whilst I?m sure providing great fun and driving experience for their owners, have some very basic problems like the car at Brightwells. And by the way, I?ve seen around 50 E Types at various auctions over the last couple of years, and all had some issue or other, a few as bad as the car at Brightwells.

When I went to Silverstone, I walked along a line of 200 or so E Types with a chum of mine, who used to appraise and buy in cars for a large classic car dealership. In an hour we saw less than 10 cars without some basic fault like poor clearances or rippled sides, and that was strolling down the lines looking for a few seconds per car. It?s no wonder that prices are all over the place!

The difference between selling and buying has always been 20% and more. Very often a dealer may have to spend a bit to get the car into retail condition, so seeing a car selling for ?60k and re-appearing a month later for ?80k wouldn?t be unusual. Cars that get hawked around the trade, a practise that has gone on for ever, really should be treated with some suspicion though!

As for estimates for insurance goes, Footman James will only take the estimate from the JEC for my cars, which isn?t a problem as I have described them honestly and put a price that I think it would cost to REPLACE the car, and JEC have signed up to that.

CMC, who have spent 100s of hours on the Coupe, and are now spending a good amount of time on the OTS, know my cars better than anybody else, know E Types as well as anybody else, and understand the market thoroughly, but their estimate is not acceptable. Seems a little daft to me!

[Heuer]

It is odd given I am with Footman James and the E-Type has been valued over the years by the same local specialist and the Elan by the person who sold it to me. Both valuations have been accepted (with photographic proof) by Footman James. I think such valuations are totally appropriate and their acceptance must mean the insurer trusts those particular specialists?

[MarkE]

I think that my policy with Footman is discounted by being a JEC member....it's a 'fleet' policy, so long as the fleet consists of Jags! The others have to go on another policy, and yes, the Lotii are valued by Paul rather than Club Lotus.

It depends who set up what with whom I guess.

[PeterCrespin]

...I think such valuations are totally appropriate and their acceptance must mean the insurer trusts those particular specialists?...

Or that the parties concerned have, let us say, 'arrangements'...

Pete

[bfeng]

I've seen some stellar E-types and other classics at UK auctions. These were cars that would receive something near 100pts at a typically very strict Jaguar club concours. It probably depends a bit on which auctions you attend. I'd guess Bonhams and Coys are more likely to have the really superb cars and Brightwells/H&H the average drivers. Bonham's had an XK140 at G Revival last year which was as near to perfect as I've ever seen.

John

[G0lfer]

Part of the problem arises from the bubbles which have arisen in e.g DB5s . This is a very special market, which arose becuase of the obsessional interest of a single particular buyer, and which , when the obsession passes, may well evaporate as quickly as it arose . People think that the E, as a more attractive car, will emulate the DB5 , but for reasons which I cannot divulge, this is unlikely to happen[quote]

As someone interested in both an E type and a DB 5, can you please elaborate on these cryptic comments? Thanks

[christopher storey]

No, I cannot elaborate. The DB is a very restricted market and one particular buyer has snapped up examples each time they have appeared. With over 70,000 E types of which at least 13,000 survive , this will not happen, and that is the difference between the market in the 2 cars