185-15 tyres on a 6 1/2 wire wheel ?

[Lorenzo]

I bought my S1 car from Holland with 205/70 15 tyres on 6 1/2 wire wheels, but I have to change the tyres because the italian omologation documents says: 185-15 tyres.

Do you think I can mount 185-15 tyres on myl 6 1/2 MWS wire wheels ?

Thanks

[PeterCrespin]

6.5 sounds an unusual size. The measurement is taken on bare wheels INSIDE the wheel well from bead flange to bead flange. How are you measuring your wheels or are they stamped 6.5"? My bet is they are 6J rims and 185s will be fine.

I don't like the sound of the authorities making you change away from a perfectly good tyre size merely to force you to stay original. I heard it's similar for the German TuV but surely cars in Italy and Germany can have sensible changes from original? I hate to think that sort of rule (and retrospective too?) will come into the UK...

Pete

[Heuer]

MWS and Dayton sell 6 1/2" wire wheels but they are a poor option on an E-Type because changing the rear wheel (think in the dark or when raining) is a nightmare because of clearance issues. The Michelin XVS 185VR tyres for example are specified for 5, 5.5 and 6 inch wheels and the wider the wheel the stiffer the side wall becomes increasing ride harshness but improving handling, to an extent. Personally I would suggest putting those wheels and tyres on eBay for the next boy racer and use the funds to buy a set of 5" or 5.5" chrome wires (avoid stainless steel) and a set of 185 Pirelli Cinturatos. This way you will get sublime handling, light precise steering and the joy of sliding your car around corners when you feel the need. Check the spare as a wheel wider than 5" is unlikely to fit the floor well without pushing the board upwards.

As for EU law: http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4041 Although the legislation has been weakened the worry is individual MOT testers can now decide what is 'original' to the car and fail it accordingly.

[Lorenzo]

Yes Peter,
the size is embossed on the back side of the wheel.

On S1, with 205/70/15 tures and 6 1/2 wheel it's impossible to change the rear wheels if needed, even if they are deflated: the only way to change them is to loose rear axle or suspension !

I think I have to buy a new complete set of rim+tyres ....

How much money do you think I can ask for my wheels on ebay ? The spare wheel is practically new ....

Concerning the italian rules ..... we have so many rules, often strange, wrong, absurd .... that's may be the reason why many italians do not follow them .....

But with "not omologated" tyres I can have many problems with the insurance company and Police, so I have to change them.

[Heuer]

Lorenzo

A set of four new 6.5" wires is on eBay for ?1,300 http://tinyurl.com/ckjcy2p

You have five plus tyres and there are people out there who think big fat wheels on an S1/2 E-Type look "cool". They would be perfect for the S3 though hence demand will be a lot stronger than for the narrower ones. Stick them on eBay and see how the bidding goes given you can link to MWS showing the new price. When you are ready contact Dougal at Longstone Tyres, mention the Forum and ask what deal he can do you on a set of five 5" or 5.5" chrome wires + 185 tyres (Pirelli or Michelin and make sure they are VR rated to avoid omologation problems). http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/

[Lorenzo]

Many thanks for your valuable advice David.

[christopher storey]

David : I'm a bit worried about your suggestion that VR will avoid homologation difficulties : Lorenzo's whole problem stems from the fact that the omologato states 185 HR 15 as the original . I agree it's an absolute nonsense, in that VR spec exceeds that of the original, but the ways of bureaucrats are weird if not particularly wonderful

[Heuer]

Christopher

Lorenzo did not mention anything about speed rating in his post. Do the omologato rules specify HR on an E-Type? I thought the original speed rating was R and this was changed to VR when the new ratings were introduced? But it is as you say, nonsensical.

[christopher storey]

David - you are quite right - looking again it merely says 185-15

[Lorenzo]

Yes, the omologation document give me two different options:

6,40 - 15 or 185 - 15

So I have to change my 205/75R15 tyres for sure, the only question I have is if a 185 - 15 tyre can fit my 6,5 wheels .....

I read on the Michelin website that a Michelin XWX 15 " 185/70VR15 tyre can be fitted, as maximum, in a 6,5 rim.

What's your opinion about this ?

[Heuer]

A standard 185 tyre has a profile of approximately 80% and can fit on 5, 5.5 and 6 rims. The 185/70 is a low profile variant and can fit on rims up to 6.5". You need to check if your rules allow for 185/70 tyres rather than the 'standard' 185. Also you will still be stuck with a tyre/wheel combination that you can't remove without dismantling the rear suspension. That is going to ruin your day if you are out on a beautiful sunny afternoon and have a puncture. Call recovery company, wait two hours for help to arrive, wait another two hours once they realise the car will have to go on a flat bed truck, risk them damaging the car and arrive back home to the sniggers of your neighbours.

Not worth it my friend - buy a set of 5.5" wheels and 185 tyres and enjoy the car without having to worry!

[christopher storey]

A 70 section tyre is much smaller in diameter than the 185 HR or VR 15, which are nominally 82% profile , and will lower your effective gearing by about 6.5%, and your speedo will overread by a similar amount . It also will lower the ground clearance by about 20mm which is an equally important consideration

[Heuer]

This extract from the BTMA was written with the UK in mind but does refer to legislation in other European countries:

[abowie]

MWS and Dayton sell 6 1/2" wire wheels but they are a poor option on an E-Type because changing the rear wheel (think in the dark or when raining) is a nightmare because of clearance issues. Check the spare as a wheel wider than 5" is unlikely to fit the floor well without pushing the board upwards.

MWS 6.5's fit fine on my FHC, easy to remove. The trick with the spare is to put the wheel in with the outside facing down. I turned up a 3" extension piece for the hold down screw. Again fits fine and the back of the wheel makes a nice dished area to keep lead hammer etc wrapped in a towel.

[Heuer]

That is interesting - what tyres do you have fitted? Lorenzo made the point his rear wheels are difficult to remove and that is echo'd by others with 6.5" wheels fitted with low profile tyres. I wonder if it is the type of tyre that make the difference?

[abowie]

Cheap and cheerful Goodyear 205/65 15's. I have removed the bumpstops as well but to be honest they didn't seem to rub.

[Heuer]

It is not the rubbing of the tyres against the bodywork that is the problem it is getting the wheel off the rear hub. Have the wheel arch lips been rolled to give more clearance because this problem is not apocryphal, it is widely known?

[44DHR]

Heuer,
I run 6.5 inch wire wheels, (my choice - I do think it makes the car look cool !!) and 205 70 15 Pirelli P4000 tyres, (again my choice !!). I seem to recall someone else running wider tyres and a very low E type at one stage - we all have our preferences and all such changes can easily be put back to standard at a later date.

I can remove the wheels and tyres without dismantling the rear axle. I have trimmed and rolled up the inside of the rear arches and do not run bumpstops.

The trick is not to jack the car centrally on the rear axle, but the lift on the opposite side inside rear lower wishbone mounting which permits the axle cage to hang down an extra amount to assist wheel removal. Once the wheel clears the rear axle mounting splines, with a little backwards and forwards rotation, the wheel and tyre is off.

regards,

Dave

[Heuer]

Thanks Dave. So it does seem you need to trim/roll the rear arches, leave off the bump stops and raise the car in a particular way to get the 6.5" wheels off. I presume you cannot use the standard jack to do this? Going back to my original point, it does mean a puncture is going to be the end of your day. :?

I used to run my car with 6" wheels and 225/65 P6000 tyres although getting the rears off was not a problem; wheel arches standard, bump stops removed. So it seems the extra 0.5" of width is the problem. This could be an option if your car is still in restoration:

[44DHR]

Heuer,

When I say rolling the edges of the rear arch, I mean grinding their width and just tapping them up to reduce the standard width of the arch flange.

I don't ever use a standard Jaguar jack. Although my sills are fine, I always jack either on the front picture frame recess, using a made up removable hardwood insert which has a large square hardwood base for the trolley jack to locate, or on the rear, using a made up wooden and alloy support under the rear diff carrier. The thick alloy plate, which has a recessed centre underneath for the trolley jack lifting cup to locate, has two parallel wood beams countersunk bolted to it which fit tight to the exhaust pipes and lift onto the carrier plate inboard wishbone carrier bolts.

In both cases I have custom made 6 inch wide wooden ramps, (basically made from a glued series of planks with chamfered ramps on their front edges), which lift the car in 3/4 inch stages over 9 inch lengths, so I position these behind the wheels these once in the garage, then reverse up the ramps to give me height to get the low access trolley jack to the front or rear.

As far as carrying a spare wheel - I don't - as why would I need a spare wheel ? Apart from the fact it won't fit in with a 205 tyre fitted, why carry a heavy wire wheel around ? When we go touring, like down to Monaco last year, (and we're off to Switzerland this year), I just pack a spare 205 70 15 tyre in the spare wheel well and pack all my spares and tools inside the empty tyre. It would need a catastrophic failure or puncture to ruin one of my tyres, (all new and dated stamped in 2011), but if it did, I have a spare tyre.

regards,

Dave