Opinions sought please!

[unclerob]

Since I bought a 1966 2+2 a few weeks ago I've been posting here and found the help and advice very valuable, now a seperate issue has come up and I'd very much like to know what people think about it....
First, I'll just say that really I know the car isn't economically viable as a restoration project but I am still going ahead, partly because I enjoy the work and partly because I think I'll enjoy the car more knowing the state it was once in! Also, I'm not concerned that the costs will considerably outway its value when finished.


So, heres my probably rather controversial idea...I'm thinking about turning it into a convertible!
The thought only came into my head a couple of hours ago prompted by two things, first having found out that the roof/windscreen aperture has been distorted in an accident and secondly finding that amongst the panels I got with the car are a pair of useable convertible wings and inner panels.
I imagine it has been done before and should be possible technically......
but I'm wondering about the legal aspects....I assume you would have to notify the DVLA...but would that then mean some kind of test....I've just had a quick look at their site...IVA etc....thats certainly a can of worms I've no intention of opening!!
Anyway, its just a thought, I'd be very interested in peoples opinions...

[steve3.8]

Hi Rob , Butlins classic cars do conversions of fhc-ots although I think s3 ,they would be able to say what's required.

http://www.butlinclassiccars.co.uk/index.php/3/

[Heuer]

Rob

No legal problem in going from FHC to OTS and quite of few E-Type's were given this treatment in the 1990's. even more so with Lotus Elan's where lots have had the roof chopped off. Your car, do what you want, you certainly won't get criticism from those here as it sounds like a fun project. Only caveat is you don't hide the fact it was converted although the chassis number will highlight that. Go ahead - we will watch with interest :D

About the only problem you might face is finding a folding roof to fit but maybe the S3 OTS one will work as that is a long wheel base car.

[johnney]

I assume you mean convert to a 2 seater OTS (Short wheelbase) as no S1 2+2 OTS cars were ever built. This being the case then a series one hood will fit.

[Durango2k]

No he has a 2+2, so it may only work with an S3 cover...

Carsten, who thougt the same. At the moment I have 2 roofs, one with a Webasto in it and an original one.

[unclerob]

Thats very interesting David, thank you. I had thought that there might be some bureaucratic hoops to jump through.
I don't think the idea would have even occurred to me if it hadn't been for the roof distortion I noticed yesterday....and if I were to go ahead with this idea I know I'd feel rather guilty actually cutting the roof off!
That said, I rather think that if the car had been bought by someone less daft than me it would now be no more than lots of bits for sale on ebay and ceased to exist as a car at all....
Even so, there are a good few weeks of work to be done before I have to make any kind of decision along those lines.
The 'Butlins' site was interesting, thank you, I believe I have all the panels bar the bootlid and rear deck panel so maybe a trip to Stoneleigh will be worthwhile to see whats available....

[GSR 54D]

Hi Rob

Coincidentally I came across this on ebay yesterday..4 seat ots.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1972-Jaguar-E ... 4846623b06

Is your plan to go the 2 seater route and match a series 1 ots? by reducing the length of the car, the windscreen rake will need changing as well etc..?

Even though it won't be worth as much a true series 1 ots it will be worth considerable. Technically it could be matched to this vehicle which is for sale on ebay: a converted FHC.

http://tinyurl.com/k62nt53

John H.

[Heuer]

Did you bid on this? http://tinyurl.com/kxjknjj Your welded louvre bonnet would have more than paid for it!

[PeterCrespin]

Is your plan to go the 2 seater route and match a series 1 ots? by reducing the length of the car, the windscreen rake will need changing as well etc..?

Even though it won't be worth as much a true series 1 ots it will be worth considerable.

The car cannot simply be reduced in length, as the floors, tunnel and rear bulkhead are totally different. The screen rake is identical on all Series 1 cars. any talk of this car eventually being worth a considerable amount is misguided IMHO.

To make even a 2+2 out of this car will mean almost building a new one from spares. To make a LWB OTS out of it will mean even more work and at the end you will have a decidedly odd-looking ugly duckling (and I'm a fan of 2+2s). If you have ever seen chopped LWB convertibles they don't look right. You walk up to them and the cabin looks very odd and long. I've seen 2-3 in the flesh and they remind me of a plank over a stream. Still, aesthetics are a strictly personal thing, so that in itself is no barrier.

I am all in favour of someone doing the impossible and putting in years and years of sweat equity because it's their hobby, but this has 'twice-abandoned project' and 'money pit' written all over it. There seems realistically to be nothing of the shell that is usable if even the roof is warped (VERY difficult to fix as this areas shows up even slight waviness once painted).

The plain fact is that someone previously opened the bodywork up to look at the interior panels and they abandoned it. No doubt it has rotted further since it was opened to the elements. I doubt the fundamental geometry is correct any longer.

Pete

[tinworm]

I think that with some work this car can be brought back ok . If the roof is out it would be best to replace it with a straight example - maybe the one with webasto as offered by another respondent. I dont think a convertible 2+2 is a good idea if you want to sell the car at sometime. Carry on as you have been is my advice . I have rebuilt shells from bare concrete so yours looks not too bad from here.

regards Barrie

[johnney]

[quote="Durango2k"]No he has a 2+2, so it may only work with an S3 cover...

that's why I wrote ,
I assume you mean convert to a 2 seater OTS (Short wheelbase) as no S1 2+2 OTS cars were ever built. This being the case then a series one hood will fit.

[unclerob]

Hi again, I've had no thoughts of shortening the wheelbase, definitely a step too far! And thank you for that link John, that is just what I had in mind....a trip to Southend now being planned....
I did watch the red 2+2 David, but had set my limit at ?2500, I might have gone higher but didn't have the time to view it that week and thought any more was too much of a gamble....
Pete, you're quite right, I bought the car from a friend of a friend who bought the car in that state in 1988 as an abandoned restoration....Fortunately though, since then he had made substantial contributions to the money pit including reconditioned engine and carbs, 38 spare panels, the majority new...well, new 20 years ago anyway!
I also got a new screen which I tried in place today, it does fit, just, but not evenly so something needs to be done there although I can't see...or feel any ripples in the roof itself...
You're also right re the body itself being distorted...it was but that has now been corrected...
Appreciate your thoughts about the finished look of it and certainly don't want to build myself a car that looks odd....first step in that regard is to look at the one in Southend...
Still very much undecided as yet but have plenty to do before any actual cutting does...or doesn't take place!

[Heuer]

The one in Southend seems to be missing the rather valuable, some would say essential, hood! However I thought the S3 OTS was built on a LWB the same as the 2+2 FHC so just look at any S3 OTS to get an idea of what your 'Frankentype' :D will look like. I guess you will need not only an S3 hood and sticks but also the S3 rear tonneau top panel and boot lid, unless the S1 items can be modified to fit. Great project and far more stimulating than just another 2+2 back on the road! If you need inspiration look here: http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/jagu ... item=85914

[christopher storey]

I am afraid I agree with Peter Crespin. The difficulties are quite enormous, and frankly I think that to arrive at a satisfactory looking result will be impossible. The S3 OTS looks alright because all the details are correct . An S1 2+2 just is not the same . It does not have the flared arches ; most importantly it does not have the steep rake of the S2/S3 windscreen . It does not have the same detailing on the rear elevation ; this looks fine on an S1 2+2 but will look most peculiar on an OTS . However, perhaps the most important obstacle is in my view the bulkhead. Once these are twisted it is virtually impossible to straighten them again. When you think of the dynamic loads which the bulkhead carries, you will realise that the strength of these is enormous and once they are twisted they stay that way. Even if superficially straightened it is likely that the 3 way seams which provide the rigidity will be weakened and/or the diaphragms will be distorted. These cars really are like no other road car which has ever been produced that I can think of and thus conventional repair techniques probably do not work. I urge you to talk about it with Andy Rayner at Hutson's , who makes many of the body parts and including complete new bulkheads. He is very approachable and will give you a good idea of what is and what is not possible , and whether it is ever possible to achieve a satisfactorily handling car when starting from something which has had a big twist in it

[Dave K]

Rob,

Do you know just how much parts costs for E-Types? I didn't when I started my restoration back in '95 and pretty soon I began to wish I'd done some homework.
4 years of delivering pizza's to help pay for it helped but even with that I couldn't throw enough money to get it finished as quick as I wanted. That was the 90's early 2000's and parts prices have increased since then.

I would never want to put anyone off doing a project and I wish you the best of luck but I have a feeling pretty soon you'll wish you never started it.

Dave

[PeterCrespin]

Pete, you're quite right, I bought the car from a friend of a friend who bought the car in that state in 1988 as an abandoned restoration....Fortunately though, since then he had made substantial contributions to the money pit including reconditioned engine and carbs, 38 spare panels, the majority new...well, new 20 years ago anyway!

I also got a new screen which I tried in place today, it does fit, just, but not evenly so something needs to be done there although I can't see...or feel any ripples in the roof itself...

The panels should clean up but the engine may need to be rebuilt, unless it was VERY carefully oiled up and stored sealed. It should definitely be stripped and inspected - at least the sump should come off to look at the rods and bores. You'd be amazed how much corrosion can occur on newly-machined surfaces after a few years of condensation.

There are a few chopped 2+2 cars on www.xkedata.com, You can see them by browsing the photos for Series 1 2+2, displaying 50 per page and scrolling through them until you spot the convertibles, then home in on that car for the full photos. The V12 OTS cars were long wheelbase but the look is different with much wider track and raked screen/heavier tail.

[tinworm]

Yes check out 1E75004 looks strangely interesting.

regards Barrie

[unclerob]

Thanks David, hadn't noticed that but it does come with a works hardtop!! Am going to have a look at it on Monday or Tuesday, no real decision as to whether I actually do this, its really just something to think about for now whilst I get on with the bodyshell itself...
Thank you for the warning Dave but don't worry I have few illusions left to shatter...I've worked in the motor industry nearly all my life and as a hobby have rebuilt/restored 10 other cars (some worse than this one) 20 odd motorcycles, several boats and an aeroplane just never an E type before....
The engine was a unexpected discovery though, I'd noticed the carbs had obviously been worked on but was surprised to see new valves when I took them off, I haven't removed the head as yet but have had a look with my scope and the pistons are certainly unused...I will be doing a complete strip eventually....something to look forward to!!
Thanks for your thoughts and concerns Christopher, I agree that although the car is now held reasonably straight it would rather return to its previous state but I do intend to replace virtually everything between the front and rear bulkheads and hopefully that should change its mind!
I appreciate that the E type is a marriage of tubular and monocoque chassis and the bulkhead is a critical area....this is fairly new to me and I will consider things carefully especially in regard to the order in which parts are replaced but I have built, from scratch, a fair number of both and I have been careful in regard to setting datum points to check measurements. For example, at present, on my jig, measurements taken from the rear axle mountings to the bulkhead are within 0.25mm of each other...
As for the eventual driveability of the car, suspension set up is a particular interest of mine, I still have all the gauges, scales etc I used to use and once the car is at the rolling stage will happily spend time getting everything just right....in that respect I'm very much the person Jeremy Clarkson doesn't want to sit next to at a party so won't go into any detail but have been having several thoughts best kept until I've got a bit further along!

[mystery type]

Yes check out 1E75004 looks strangely interesting.

Barrie, that should make your mind up!
keep the car a S1 2+2. not many were made anyway, and fewer still were rhd.

A great deal of time and money will be spent on this project, better to end up with something correct, you can be proud of, and not end up with something resembling a "challenger" that will always be an imitator.

but that's just my opinion, and i do have a S1 2+2. good luck whatever you decide.

[Heuer]

If you are going down the OTS route you may as well chop out the extra 9" (the 2+2 floors are unobtainable anyway) and make it look like the real thing because 1E75004 does indeed look odd.