Values

[Tony]

Oxford Dictionary definition: 'Enthusiast': a person who is very interested in a particular activity or subject

Synonyms: fan, fanatic, devotee, aficionado, addict, lover, admirer, supporter, follower

I can't find anything that associates "value", "prices", "rich", "poor", "greed", "investment", "fortune" or indeed "real" synonymously with the the term enthusiast. I assume if there are 'real enthusiasts' there must be unreal enthusiasts out there - or are you making this up as you go along?

David,

As I am the only one to use the word real enthusiast, this must be directed at me. I will admit I did not refer to the English Dictionary before using the word but most people will understand what I mean even if it is out of context.
As to making it up as I am going along, well yes, that what I normally do when posting. It's just my thoughts, no more. No one said you have to talk sense when joining the forum.
If this was not directed at me then I apologise for the misunderstanding.

Tony

[Heuer]

Tony - I was referring to the post by exkay120 immediately above mine.

exkay120 - no cyber beating was intended it is just 'real enthusiast' is an oxymoron because you can't have an 'unreal' one!

[exkay120]

I think deep down you know what i mean David?.

[Tony]

Tony - I was referring to the post by exkay120 immediately above mine.

exkay120 - no cyber beating was intended it is just 'real enthusiast' is an oxymoron because you can't have an 'unreal' one!

Oxymoron or not, I would call you a real enthusiast along with a few others on the forum as you back it up with the effort and work you put into the forum,your knowledge and the way you use your cars to the full. I would call myself an enthusiast as I have neither built the car or have the knowledge but like the jaguar cars. As for an unreal enthusiast I shall apply this term to the oxymorons where ever they live.

[mgcjag]

Hi Tony.....I think all the Real Ale enthusiasts will agree with you...Steve

[vipergts]

The point is they're a truly great car and not that expensive when you consider the prices of much lesser cars.

A MK1 Escort can cost you 50 bags...what makes a Dino worth 300 bags?

All down to supply and demand, if demand wains then so will prices

[andrewh]

All you doomsayers may want to check out the real market rather than the speculation of auctioneers who clearly need to create a market and find sellers who will consign cars


http://k500.com/story-item/hot-off-the- ... lia-island



http://k500.com/story-item/hot-off-the- ... sland-2015

Worth reading

I do agree that prices being asked have got too high for the short term, but I think the market for Classic Cars is very different than it was back in the early 90s. A number of critical factors have changed, the first is that interest rates around the world are in a new long term phase of ultra low levels and are unlikely to increase very much very soon. This has reduced the opportunity cost of investments / discretionary purchases. It is typical of a post Banking crisis scenario and one only needs to look at Japan where their zero interest rate policy still prevails 25 years after their own banking crisis. Money is cheap, and if you can get hold of it you may as well enjoy it. I hazard a guess that most buyers of Classic Cars are making purchases from savings or equity release, and why not.
The second major factor that has changed since the early 1990s when interest rates were considerably higher and when the crunch bit, the toys had to go, is that there is a very extensively developed leisure industry that has built up around the Classic Car scene. It seems now, that you can go to one or another very very high quality events almost every weekend if you so wish. People have chosen to invest in their leisure, and why not. what can be better than a ride down to Goodwood in an E type? not a lot . If you have any doubt as to the buying power and indulgence for spending on a loss making leisure pastime, I suggest you take yourself down to any marina on the South Coast of England. Whenever I feel guilty about my pleasures a trip to the Hamble or Lymington soon makes me feel better. Believe me, what peole spend on boats makes cars look like toys. Enoy your cars and sure expect a slowdown, but a shake out? No I don't think so . I for one am waiting to buy any series One roadster that appears too cheap! :D

[christopher storey]

I had a long conversation with Richard Hudson Evans at Brightwell's sale last week , and what he had to say madefor interesting and sobering listening . he too ( and he covers most auctions for many of the magazines and has done so for c.30 years ) senses a bubble about to go bang . This is particularly a consequence of over-enthusiastic lending against classic cars where apparently lenders who would lend 30% of a car's value 2 years ago are now persuading themselves to lend up to 90%. Need I say any more ? Most of you will not be old enough to remember the secondary banking crisis of the early to mid-seventies, but I am, and as I was at that time a Chartered Accountant in practice with Price Waterhouse I had close connections with it , and I see all the signs of incipient disaster there again

[andrewh]

I had a long conversation with Richard Hudson Evans at Brightwell's sale last week , and what he had to say madefor interesting and sobering listening . he too ( and he covers most auctions for many of the magazines and has done so for c.30 years ) senses a bubble about to go bang . This is particularly a consequence of over-enthusiastic lending against classic cars where apparently lenders who would lend 30% of a car's value 2 years ago are now persuading themselves to lend up to 90%. Need I say any more ? Most of you will not be old enough to remember the secondary banking crisis of the early to mid-seventies, but I am, and as I was at that time a Chartered Accountant in practice with Price Waterhouse I had close connections with it , and I see all the signs of incipient disaster there again

ery

I know Richard Hudson Evans also, and I know he is very highly thought of and well read. I do however respectively suggest that he does not know much about the individual financing arrangements of the average buyer of a car at ?100,000 and up. I doubt there is as much finance at play as you fear to be honest. I know of two sales of cars over the last three weeks at over ?200,000 each, and neither had any finance attached at all. As for a secondary banking crisis, I rather assumed that after the Banking crisis when most authorities including the Labour Government were caught asleep at the wheel, that the Bank of England and the Financial Conduct Authority would be keeping an eye on this sort of lending. Anyway, if there is a SBC there would be only one solution, more QE and we know what that does for the value of the old pound , hence some inflation proof treasure assets may prove even more popular!

[christopher storey]

I think you will find that RHE is asked by lenders to value cars as security . He is becoming very wary of the situation which is developing, particularly at a much higher level than we are talking about in relation to E types

[exkay120]

Remember my words guys??... Bubble bursting !!

[Tony]

It's a good job we did not invest in Bubble Cars. If the bubble does
burst you will not even have a car to sell???

[1954Etype]

Well you keep reminding us enough times!

[exkay120]

Well its the law !!! ?.

[ernie]

I would characterise it as a good probability that some of the over priced froth is blown off the classic car market.
Good well restored cars may lose a little (but not crash) but the over priced ones with dodgy restoration or provenance will become less attractive to buyers and thus the prices will adjust.
I sense that the supply of reasonable cars to own or rebuild is starting to become a little thin.
In conclusion, my view is that prices may correct a little but the over priced over rated cars will drop more into line with the bulk of the cars.
The money will go to quality....

[andrewh]

Well its the law !!! ?.

Billy, I must confess I am struggling to understand your fixation with prices falling. On the one hand you seem a keen E Type owner, and want to buy more as we see from the wanted posts, you own two, but yet you want the prices to fall. It seems odd to me, that you frequent this forum where we are all enthusiastic owners and restorers of the wonderful E Type and many of us have put blood sweat and tears into restoring our cars and yet you constantly denigrate the Iconic E Type as not being worthy of its price tag. Prices that are being regularly achieved at auction and in private treaty. I am sure I am reading too much into it, but there is no point living in the past, times change you know. I used to live in a flat in Chelsea which cost ?47,500 and was not much bigger than a double garage. That was in 1984. It recently sold for ?1.4m.

[exkay120]

Firstly, i'm not degenerating the E Type at all, i love them too much to do that..i've owned E Types for 490 years now.

Secondly, i do think they are overpriced, as you mentioned, i do own 2, but that doesn't stop me saying that i think there not worth the silly prices that people are paying for them, thats my opinion, i've also put blood sweat and tears into them over the years.

Its my opinion as to what the prices are going to do, thats not a knock at anyone that owns one of the bloody things, or that am i putting the car down,

Bottom line is, lets wait and see, maybe you might be right, you say they are making good prices at auction and privately, have a look at how many are still for sale, i too go to auctions and watch these cars, they certainly are not selling like you mention they are.

As for your flat in Chelsea, good luck to you, not a lot to do with E Types tho.

[PeterCrespin]

Firstly, i'm not degenerating the E Type at all, i love them too much to do that..i've owned E Types for 490 years now.

It's just prices that have inflated then.

What's your name by the way? Sorry if I missed it unless it's Billy?

Pete

[Mark Gordon]

Today is the first decent day that we've had for driving an E for quite a while, so I took it out when I had to run some errands. While stopped at a traffic light, a guy pulled up next to me and asked me if I wanted to sell. When I shook my head, he said, "I'll give you $60,000 cash for it right now." I politely laughed and told him that his offer was for about half of what it is worth. He then asked me if it is a Series I or II and I told him it is a Series I. (I guess that he knows something about E's.) He then asked me if I would take $100,000 and I told him no, it's not for sale and that I enjoy driving it too much. Hard to say what I could have gotten if I'd told him to follow me home and we'd talk, but for a nice driver, non-concours car, there must still be some strong interest out there. Maybe if this "bubble" does burst and circumstances force me to sell, I'll regret not taking him up on his offer. However, if I sell it, I'll never be able to afford another. For now, I'm happy.

[drcarrera]

It seems to me the UK prices are skewed by the restoration companies selling (or at least advertising!) freshly restored / upgraded cars for ?200K + and buyers getting carried away at auction and blowing ?50K + on a resto project (the former probably encourages the latter!). This in turn leads to non-specialist dealers and private sellers asking over-ambitious prices for cars which are then hanging about for ages.

I think any "correction" will just narrow the gap between advertised prices and those actually being paid with a resultant general improvement in turnover. That's my theory, anyway ... 8)

I asked my wife if I should buy now or wait for a year for prices to drop. She said that if I buy now, prices will drop, if I wait, they'll go up! I don't have the best history when it comes to car buying!

In practice I'll try to pay "sensible" money for a good car as soon as I can find one and a) enjoy it , b) keep it for a long time. It's a car, not an ISA!