Price hierarchy between models

[PeterCrespin]

His remarks to Pete, Geoff, Christopher and the use of the PM system to send abuse have however crossed the line and I have no alternative but to cancel his membership.

Your prerogative entirely David, and you have my backing 100%.

In case people were wondering, however, Barnes didn't PM me at least, and I didn't ask for his removal. Didn't need to really - he was doing a fine job himself if he was PM-ing insults

[David Oslo]

This has been a painfull thread to read. Well handled by most of the parties involved. Say no more....

Back onto topic :D - my money (literally) is on a S1 FHC 2+2 auto in Primrose. I did what QuattroFrank said 'buy the car you like'. I was tired of 20 years with 2-seater cabriolets, and the kids like the back seat for school runs. Now I'm improving the day to day appeal by swapping out the BW box and putting in a 4 speed MOD, then bare-metal respray to Opalescent Gunmetal. Just got colour & clear left to do, then put it all back together.

All done for enjoyment (just as much fun rebuilding engines and gearboxes as driving the finished car), and without thought of what's best for investment purposes :D

[D COUPE]

Well for what it is worth I am 6' 2'' and I would not consider any other than a V12 S3.

I have driven and owned a few variants and it is the V12 S3 OTS for
me. Longer wider more pleasing from the rear...........

Since when as MPG been a consideration for a 'toy'.

I bought mine to rebuild and run. If financial gain comes so be it, if they
falter who cares .........You don't make or lose until You sell.

DC

[vipergts]

Seems a shame to have to ban someone new to Etypes BUT if he was PM ing nasty threats to members then I understand. I do however think that some comments made to him were a bit harsh. I for one am a die hard car nut job but have to say when I went looking for an early Esprit recently I knew nothing about them........But then I always buy then read up and usually join a specific forum such as this to glean info.

[ernie]

I totally agree with Viper. If it is a case of unpleasant PMs then of course action has to be taken.

However aside from an obvious case of nil research I found his posting not to be particularly offensive and certainly not deserving of some members response. As has been said we all have to start somewhere in learning about cars...and who has not said something stupid in the past?

As for the defense that the member is an authority on etypes...that is not the point and is not an excuse. Also the chap stated that that it was for investment purposes but he did not say that he wasn't going to drive the car. Many of us would buy a car because it appeals and drives, but i suspect that most of us have a little bit of an eye on its value going forward..not the sole reason but a consideration.

I note that the chap did thank the more structured responses to his question.

I am afraid that this episode will put off new posters and people who would like to learn more about the etype. I think that the forum is a fantastic place and people generously provide their advice and offer encouragement and experience. I have found the forum to be both informative and entertaining.

However for the reasons I have stated I for one would not be inclined to post on the forum nor probably view it going forward if curmudgeonly behaviour is deemed acceptable in response to a rather poorly researched but well meaning enquiry. :(

[Red Kite]

I am afraid that this episode will put off new posters and people who would like to learn more about the etype. I think that the forum is a fantastic place and people generously provide their advice and offer encouragement and experience. I have found the forum to be both informative and entertaining.

However for the reasons I have stated I for one would not be inclined to post on the forum nor probably view it going forward if curmudgeonly behaviour is deemed acceptable in response to a rather poorly researched but well meaning enquiry. :(

I can see your point. Maybe as the original poster has been banned, it would be better to now remove the thread completely.

[David Oslo]

Would that not amount to censorship? I would prefer the thread to be left as an example on how a simple question can be replied to in different manners and balloon from there on. I would believe that some of the members may see their postings in a different light in the course of time. Thus it is beneficial to avoid censorship of public statements.

[Heuer]

I think it is probably reasonable and fair for me to put things in perspective for Forum members, new and old. This is the first time that I or any of the Moderators have had to take action against a member of this Forum for bad behaviour. The 'Moderators' have never had to moderate anything and as 'Administrator' my job has been to keep the system up and occasionally editing out the over use of "quotes" in threads to improve flow and readability. So this was a first for us. I was watching this thread unfold and having noticed the 'wobble' I sought to move the discussion on and hoped we were back on track. I was however informed of two PM's sent to a Forum member late at night which, quite frankly stunned me. Here is an extract of one of them:

"You are a complete ass-licker. If Peter had not been a large contributer on this site, then you would not be making such statements. I was not rude in the slightest except for challenging the pathetic statement that was made to me. There was once a guy in the 1940s from Germany with a moustache who felt he could dictate what others should and shouldn't do just because it suited him. His honchos kissed his backside with anything he said and did. Does this remind you of yourself ?"

And the other:
"Who the hell do you think you are ?! Rudeness where it is absolutely due! Your statement has p155ed me off more than any of the others and I am not going to just let this go. Trying to defame me to other people when you don't even know me! Not going to happen. I suspect you are a pathetic little man getting off in your troll like way sucking up to others. Seriously who do you think you are?!"

These PM's were unsolicited and no one should have to endure such comments, certainly from a new member seeking help. I had no option but to take affirmative action because after re-reading the thread several times I could not see any remarks that could have led to such vitriol. Any one of you entering the discussion might equally have been attacked for a misplaced word or unappreciated comment. It does make me question the OP's intent.

The thread will remain live and discussion can continue - it is your Forum.

[64etype]

....after re-reading the thread several times I could not see any remarks that could have led to such vitriol.

I did.

[1954Etype]

I was aware of the PMs and in a non sycophantic way, fully support this decision.

[Simon P]

As I've had the pleasure of meeting and corresponding off-air with one of the people I assume to have been on the receiving end of one of those PMs I have to say that I find it quite shocking that he should have been subject to that. Totally unwarranted. David, in my opinion you've done exactly the right thing.

Simon

[ernie]

Yes agree that the contents of those PMs are inexcusable and not acceptable and totally agree with and support David's actions.

Notwithstanding that, I still stand by my other concerns about the tone of some posts...

[PeterCrespin]

As one of the (if not THE) offender(s) who seemingly started the kerfuffle, I can say I'm not particularly proud of my post but not especially repentant either. It wasn't meant to be offensive but it was meant to respond negatively to a post whose title and content only talked about money.

David Barnes had a perfect right to post on that topic from his very first post and I have a perfect right to reply forthrightly, provided I am not gratuitously offensive. It's a forum and everyone is entitled to an opinion without being slammed.

I didn't receive any PMs from David Barnes but am appalled at what he wrote to others. To the extent that others were offended by my remarks I am sorry about that, but not particularly sorry about expressing my views. I agree with the view that scribbling half a dozen little books is not relevant, or a defense, even if the E-type pair have exactly the info on relative pricing DB was after.

Handsome is as handsome does and I din' do 'andsome.

Apologies to the list.

Pete

[MarekH]

I've been away for the past week and was a bit surprised and puzzled by this thread. It strikes me that there has been some mismatch of expectations here:- many car forums have much more macho language and an almost competitively absurd desire to demonstrate self promotion. This forum, along with the US jag-lovers.org site simply don't fit that mold and so a new poster may actually be a bit disorientated when he finds that fancy monikers/avatars and fist waving are not the norm.

To answer his question:- as with any investment, current prices don't really have any immediate impact on the future direction of further price movement. Added to that, he is asking what is mostly a bunch of enthusiasts who repair and drive these cars, not financial analysts who can confidently outpredict what, if anything, is to be seen in Madame Zaza's crystal ball.

For the future, would it be a good suggestion, were the technology to allow it, for new posters should use real names for at least a short trial period and have only restricted access to private messaging?

kind regards
Marek

[64etype]

Mr. Barnes got a raw deal. Invite him back.

[Heuer]

Eric

Either you forgot to add a smiley to your post or you are condoning someone who compares an esteemed E-Type owner to one of the most vile people in history. You may come from the (second) biggest State in the Union but you need to re-calibrate your sympathies otherwise you may find yourself in the smallest E-Type state in the world - i.e. friendless. You are one mouse click away, your choice

[David Oslo]

Talking about smileys, have you ever noticed that advertisements of watches (almost) always depict the time as either 10:10 or 13:50, thus making the arms "smile" on the watch face.

Just doing my bit to keep things in a positive tone :D

[Heuer]

Well spotted David although they do that to make sure the sub dials (normally at 9, 3 and 6 o' clock are completely visible. Sales thing I think :?

[Gfhug]

Aren't the watch hands at those positions because they are supposed to remind us all of the correct position of our hands on the steering wheel?
Does this mean Heuer needs constant reminding of this considering his choice of picture/avatar?
Does he leave his car clock fixed at 13:50 just in case he forgets?

[David Oslo]

Not all watches have secondary dials, hence the 10:10 solely for that reason doesn't hold water, although it's a secondary benefit :D

Interesting article for the horologists / admen out there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/28/busin ... 8adco.html