New record price for a FHC?

steve3.8 · Post by **steve3.8** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:24 pm

Am I right in thinking , the only true winner with this one is Bonhams , to achive ? 203,100 including premium the hammer price would be circa ?175K and the buyer has paid around ?28,000 in buyers premium , Bonhams charge 15% for the first ?50K then 12% thereafter , plus VAT .

The seller could have received just over ?140,000 at worst as I would have thought they have been charged 10-15% selling premium , so will have paid ?21- ?26,000 plus VAT in selling fees .

With ?100,000s worth of invoices on file , 9 years at Robeys and only 1000 miles of use since by Quentin , I don?t think he will regard it as a good return .

E types generally are not rare but only a selection of them are the most desirable , which probably equates to 10% at most of the cars offered for sale .

Moeregaard · Post by **Moeregaard** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:42 pm

"E types generally are not rare but only a selection of them are the most desirable , which probably equates to 10% at most of the cars offered for sale."

I couldn't agree more, Steve. What we see is a relatively small percentage of cars trading hands at very high prices. There are over 16,000 E-Types on xkedata.com, and I'm sure there are several thousand more--running or not--whose owners prefer not to participate. You are also correct in that the auction houses are the real beneficiaries of this feeding frenzy.

paydase · Post by **paydase** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:03 am

Moeregaard wrote:I still think we're seeing a bubble with the classic-car market. While E-types and other significant cars from the era will likely never become worthless, the market will fluctuate. I see it as a parallel to the real-estate game, in that buying land is often a good investment because they're not making any more of it. That said, at some point in time the speculators will realize that the cost to buy in is no longer in their best interests, as was the case with housing in California, before the crash a few years ago brought things back to a somewhat normal level. Markets have a way of taking care of themselves.

The new owners of these cars will eventually dispose of them for a variety of reasons: loss of interest, economic difficulties, etc., and we'll see prices heading downhill to more sensible levels.

The comparison with real-estate is fair although you can reconstruct a ruined house on the same valuable land, not make a new E-Type .
No way to compare E-Types to tulips or other famous bubbles. In the long run, prices of a finite/decreasing quantity of valuable items will always increase.
Especially when measured with a currency that your central bank can print ad infinitum!
Not saying that the owner of an E-Type will always win money by buying one, especially in the short term, but in a way he has a tangible item that is sought after because of its intrinsic niceties (iconic car, design, technolgy for the period, etc.) and that will not lose value in the long term, especially if bought at a reasonable (fair market) price and well maintained.
While enjoying it!

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:12 am

Heuer wrote:On the subject of originality of the car under discussion... I am disappointed to see the oil pressure gauge is not period correct as it is marked "Made in UK" rather than "Made in England" The devil is in the detail

Actually, Quentin did try to use accurate gauges - he just didn't succeed. He browsed my stock at Stoneleigh 5-6 years ago and his eyes lit up as he grabbed one gauge. Sadly, I didn't make a sale as he told me he was looking for a 61 dated gauge. Odd that he would go to that length but do other non-standard stuff.

I think it's very questionable of Bonhams to write that the data plate is orginal when it's clearly a modern repro not a photo-etched Jag part. You don't have to be a marque expert auctioneer to spot it's brand new alloy.

MarkE · Post by **MarkE** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:08 am

If I were an F1 driver earning ?15 million plus a year, and wanted a mint E Type Coupe, I don't think that a 20% premium over having one bought and restored is a lot to pay to save a 5 year wait!

To put it into perspective, folks like Simon Cowell spend ?250,000 A WEEK to hire a boat to have a little cruise and a couple of parties....doesn't make a dent in the disposable wad.

I'm selling my Coupe currently, and it's starting to look cheap!!

http://www.classic-motor-cars.co.uk/car ... 1-4-2-fhc/

SEJohnson95 · Post by **SEJohnson95** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:40 am

MarkE wrote: I'm selling my Coupe currently, and it's starting to look cheap!!

http://www.classic-motor-cars.co.uk/car ... 1-4-2-fhc/

Am I missing something here? What's the sudden urge to sell Mark?

Post by **Heuer** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:49 am

Probably to give him room to restore the other 15 or so cars he has!

SEJohnson95 · Post by **SEJohnson95** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:05 pm

I've got enough on helping to restore one from time-to-time, let alone trying to restore that many. Of course if you happen to have a '65 or '66 OTS for restoration.... ;)

MarkE · Post by **MarkE** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:14 pm

The main reason for selling is not using it enough , and that makes me feel really guilty! Being 6ft 5 inches tall and having a duff back as a result of having been an immortal teenager on a motorbike doesn't help...not enough 'wiggle' room to get comfy when on the move. The S3 OTS has that space. I'm also reducing the fleet to a more manageable 'few', and being a bit of a tart and enjoying the E Types, old Lotus Elans, the Lotus Cortina and Twincam Escort, as well as a few oddities, it's a very hard decision to make. Undoubtedly the E Type Coupe is the most stunning looking car, and drives beautifully now, but it will be better in the hands of someone who can use it.

vipergts · Post by **vipergts** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:10 pm

People keep talking bubbles and 80's style crashes

One big difference between now and the 80's crash is that there was a lot of borrowed money back then.

I'm certainly no expert but one thing is evident, there's a lot of cash out there right now even without the new emerging countries

PaulColeman · Post by **PaulColeman** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:12 pm

christopher storey wrote: I should add with this particular car that any "profit" may be illusory. It cost 15K + premium to start with and was then with Robeys for quite a few years. It is quite easy to spend well into 6 figures on that sort of restoration where 2 days spent on e.g. a heater box will have cost over ?1000, and I know of one acquaintance who has spent over ?150K on doing up his late Father's 2+2 . In the past, however, it was impossible to recover the restoration costs, and whether that still applies is a moot point - however, as a guide, 2 persons known to me shared a DB5 which sold for well over ?300K at R&M and having restored it they still made a loss on it

I spoke to Quentin Willson at the NEC a couple of years back when he was displaying it there at the Classic Car Show. He said that he tried to restore it on the cheap and put it into a back street restoration garage and after spending ?25,000 they'd made a mess of it - he didn't put it quite as politely as that though. He then spent well over ?100,000 with Martin Robey who did a fantastic job as it looked stunning - I was drooling at the mouth. If you take into account how much he paid for it and then take off the premiums from the sale price he undoubtedly lost money on it.

Paul.

Durango2k · Post by **Durango2k** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:52 pm

Today the whole Economie is even more borrowed.

Due to the modern way money comes into existence, any ! Euro, pound, Dollar is not backed by anything else but other people's debt and their will and ability to pay it back.

IF the economie Starts tot Tumble, forget those Prices, they are like Antiqua paintings and the like.

OR it May be a huge Rush to get rid out of paper money, and E-Types are considered as Blue chips- then expect millions....

Carsten

MarekH · Post by **MarekH** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:54 pm

Paul,

It's fair to say that the new owner will also lose money on it. In fact he already has....

kind regards
Marek

vipergts · Post by **vipergts** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:30 pm

It's funny how one make forums always talk down the price of their beloved marque. Same on other forums that I frequent...notably Porsche 911, Datsun Z and Mopar. 911 in particular are increasing at a far greater rate than Etypes.

paydase · Post by **paydase** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:33 pm

Durango2k wrote:Today the whole Economie is even more borrowed.

Due to the modern way money comes into existence, any ! Euro, pound, Dollar is not backed by anything else but other people's debt and their will and ability to pay it back.

IF the economie Starts tot Tumble, forget those Prices, they are like Antiqua paintings and the like.

OR it May be a huge Rush to get rid out of paper money, and E-Types are considered as Blue chips- then expect millions....

Carsten

That's right. There is more debt today than yesterday and it's backed by ever increasing paper. No inflation yet because the Fed manages to keep rates low, but when they cant any more, the beast will show up.
And then, I believe your second option may be more likely: when the crisis bursts out, people will rush on tangible assets before the dust settles: farmland, gold, real estate, art, collectibles.

Post by **Heuer** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:33 pm

I was just thinking of selling our 1997 993 C2 with 68k on the clock but I can't find any for sale to get a price fix. Maybe I will hang on to it!

kingzetts · Post by **kingzetts** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:12 pm

Keep it, David. Even if not being used much it will be appreciating. I still regret selling my 1976 Carrera 3 to part-fund my e-type.

Moeregaard · Post by **Moeregaard** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:39 pm

Heuer wrote:I was just thinking of selling our 1997 993 C2 with 68k on the clock but I can't find any for sale to get a price fix. Maybe I will hang on to it!

Keep it, David! I know from bitter experience that when we start "thinking" of selling something, it only takes one guy with a big wad of cash to push you over the edge. My '65 FHC would still be sitting in my garage had I not been "thinking" when that guy came along--and July 18, 1998, would not be a personal day of infamy!

vipergts · Post by **vipergts** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:24 pm

993's are moving quite nicely right now......not worth selling.

I sold my 964 RS and regret it most days but then I bought sensibly with the money and that's done equally as well

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New record price for a FHC?

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