The 'E' Type Forum

I purchase a new regulator for the right hand door from Martin Robey's. part No. BD32616.
When I removed the worn original one it was the opposite hand !!!!! Checked with Robey's and they confirmed it was correct. Robey's told me I could try fitting it and still be able to return it (hope they honour this !)
Anyway, I fitted it and yes it worked, sort of !! It went up and down as it should, BUT as soon as I tried to fit the internal door catch I found a BIG problem. The regulator fouled with the remote door catch arm and also it could not be threaded through the arm guide.
Robey's sent me a L Hand door regulator to try. Oh yes, that fitted as well and the remote arm no longer fouled. BUT, when the window is wound up and the glass channel badly fouls the regulator just over half way up. It is fouling one of the pivots just above where the bracket with the 4 threaded studs are. Without butchering it I cannot see how either hand will work.
Has anyone had this experience and how did they overcome it ? I'm sure the part numbers are wrong
Bob

Hi Bob
SNGB web site shows enlargable photographs of both LH and RH window regulators.
https://www.sngbarratt.com/uk/#!/Englis ... aba90a4a4d.
https://www.sngbarratt.com/uk/#!/Englis ... 77fb002ffb
This may help you in sorting out what Robeys have sent you. Difficult to understand how both LH and RH could be fitted to a RH door.
Hope this helps,
Bob

Bob. wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:48 am

Hi Bob
SNGB web site shows enlargable photographs of both LH and RH window regulators.
https://www.sngbarratt.com/uk/#!/Englis ... aba90a4a4d.
https://www.sngbarratt.com/uk/#!/Englis ... 77fb002ffb
This may help you in sorting out what Robeys have sent you. Difficult to understand how both LH and RH could be fitted to a RH door.
Hope this helps,
Bob

Hi Bob, (another one)
I assure you they can be used. It means that the quadrant gear is 180 deg out and the solid arm curve is upward instead of downward therefore taking the moving parts higher in the door.
I eventually found the fault. The RH one, BD32616 will fit perfectly BUT the solid arm of the mechanism is so low in the door the remote catch arm interferes with the regulator when it is lowered, that's even if you can get it in and attached at both ends as the solid bar is in the way of the door catch guide.
The LH, BD32617 again fitted perfectly but it hit the bottom glass channel as it passed the mechanism. After much searching, with torch and mirror, and head scratching, I found that the new arms are thicker (and more robust) than the original. This meant that the clearance between glass channel and mechanism became an interference. I touched the grinder on the first pivot rivet and reduced its head height by 2mm. I then marked the channel/arm that it passed and ground a little off of the 2 webs, about another 2mm. Although this may weaken the arm slightly it then gives the 2 parts to clear each other.
I am surprised that nobody has ever had this problem before.

Bob

flyer295 Wrote:

The RH one, BD32616 will fit perfectly BUT the solid arm of the mechanism is so low in the door the remote catch arm interferes with the regulator when it is lowered, that's even if you can get it in and attached at both ends as the solid bar is in the way of the door catch guide.
The LH, BD32617 again fitted perfectly but it hit the bottom glass channel as it passed the mechanism. After much searching, with torch and mirror, and head scratching, I found that the new arms are thicker (and more robust) than the original. This meant that the clearance between glass channel and mechanism became an interference. I touched the grinder on the first pivot rivet and reduced its head height by 2mm. I then marked the channel/arm that it passed and ground a little off of the 2 webs, about another 2mm. Although this may weaken the arm slightly it then gives the 2 parts to clear each other.
I am surprised that nobody has ever had this problem before.

Apologies for dragging up an old Thread, but perhaps this information will enable anyone needing to purchase a Window Regulator for a LWB S2 or any S3 car, to purchase the correct part.

Hello Bob,
With regards to BD32616 assembly fitting perfectly (in a RH Door) until the remote catch is fitted, I suspect that the Vibration Damper Bracket and Guide (for the remote catch bar) is missing from your door. With the Vibration Damper Bracket in place, its simply impossible to do. The following picture shows the extent to which the threaded studs of the four threaded stud bracket of a BD32616 Window Regulator, pass through the door shell when attempting to fit it to a RH Door with the Vibration Damping Bracket in place.



This is due to the lower horizontal arm interfering with the Vibration Damping Bracket. The nut in the picture is only engaged by a couple of threads and was there only to hold the bracket in place so I could take a picture as there was quite firm pressure against the interference with the Vibration Damping Bracket to get the engagement that far.

With respect your fitting of the BD32617 to a RH Door, the correct assembly, notwithstanding the LH Part Number, and having interference with the Glass Channel member of the Window Regulator as it passes from Window Up to Window Down position, I suspect that your work around may have made it work, but not for the actual reason for the interference.

The following picture is of a BD32616 (RH Part Number) superimposed on a Left Hand Door so that the correct configuration of the Window Regulator can be seen when in the Window Up position and with no possible interference with the location of the Vibration Damping Bracket. The dimension of the top, horizontal member of all the After Market assemblies I've measured is slightly longer than original equipment and as that member moves from the Up to the Down position it passes the point where it transitions from being above the members fixed to the door shell to below them. At this point, the centre distance of the pivots of the horizontal member of the Window Regulator, that interfaces with the Window Channel, is too long to pass without the moving mechanism distorting and moving sideways.



I have a short video comparing this action of an After Market Part with an Original Equipment assembly, but at the moment I'm unable to attach it for some reason, but I'll make further attempts.

With regards to your comment "I am surprised that nobody has ever had this problem before", everyone trying to fit BD32616 and BD32617 units into RH and LH doors respectively will all have an issue, particularly if the Vibration Damper Bracket is still in place, as in this situation, its simply impossible for the Window Regulator to be installed.

Regards,

Bill

Bill, thank you for reposting this as it adds to your excellent original post and the subsequent thread from others that you originally posted in 2021 that I also only recently discovered and read with interest. I have spent frustrating hours trying to get my regulators reinstalled after I dismantled them as part of an extensive restoration I did on my Series 2 2+2 during Covid lockdown. I could not see how they could fit with the dampers in place which I had previously riveted in place and so spent hours trying to see what I was doing wrong - (knowing they had fitted previously). in total frustration I finally removed the dampers but they fortunately still sit on the end of my workbench - so having now read your post I can now take out both regulators re-arrange them with the bent arm as shown in picture 2 of your original post and refit correctly and then refit the danpers at long last. What I cannot remember however is can the regulators be removed through the bottom door opening with the glass and chrome door frame remaining in place or do I have to remove frame and glass first before extracting the regulators through the top? Any advice very much appreciated.

Croco Wrote:

What I cannot remember however is can the regulators be removed through the bottom door opening with the glass and chrome door frame remaining in place or do I have to remove frame and glass first before extracting the regulators through the top? Any advice very much appreciated.

Hello Croco,
Yes you can, but the Window Winder Assembly needs to be in a narrow (height wise), elongated form (fore, aft wise); how it would be when the window is at mid elevation.

What surprises me, is that the parts suppliers weren't aware that they were selling the wrong handed part. SNG Barratt have fixed the issue, but I note that Martin Robey still show a LH part for what should be a RH part on their website. All long wheel base cars from S2 on, all came from the factory with the Window Winding Assembly configured as I've shown it in my earlier Post. Its simply not possible to assemble it otherwise unless the inner door latch remote bar damper and bracket are removed. If this part is removed, you would then have to put up with the remote bar clanging on the inside of the door frame when shutting the door and perhaps when negotiating bumpy roads.

I suspect that the issue came about as a carry over from S1 2+2 cars, where the remote bar is on the out side of the door frame and where the Window Winder Assembly can be assembled in either door, in either configuration. ALL Jaguar workshop and parts manuals for S2 2+2 and all S3 cars show the incorrect Window Winder Assembly in their illustrations, showing a LH unit in the window down position, upside down. Apart from the inverted geometry of the assembly being shown, the upside down aspect of the assembly is confirmed by the scroll spring being shown tethered on the top side of the retaining lug, rather than at the bottom. For the spring to be located in this manner would result in the spring being wound tighter as the window is raised and therefore, instead of the spring aiding in the upward movement of the window and resisting it falling down, the reverse would occur.

Regards,

Bill

Thank you Bill for very prompt and further helpful advice.

Hello and thank you for the very informative contributions. One topic concerns me, as I want to replace the window regulator mechanism on my S1 Coupé soon. Can the window regulator mechanism on this vehicle (with a accordingly shorter door) also be fitted with the window frame and glass installed or does everything have to be removed?

And if everything has to come out: Does anyone happen to have an excerpt from the workshop manual where the removal is described?

Thanks in advance, Klaus