Panel gap profiling - help please

[ChrisC]

Chaps,

I have applied a thin skim of filler across the doors and surrounding panels in order to blend the transition to a better than factory fit. Trouble is I have tried (quite a lot actually...) to create smooth rounded edges that are even and straight. I cant for the life of me manage to create the same tight rounded profile for the entire edge of the panels.

The hardest part for me is the panels in front of the door and the rubber channel at the back edge of the door. Rolled up sandpaper simply doesn't work for me.

Any advice please on obtaining the same fixed curvature everywhere? I cant be the first home restorer to have had this problem.

Thanks

ChrisC

[MarkE]

Chris, I'm not sure there are many folks on here who have done much in the way of bodywork on their E Types, including me!

I've done plenty of work on other cars in this area and it is one of the most tricky to get right if you've re-skinned the door or replaced a rear wing. Jaguar had the highest standards in the industry, apart from the coachbuilt cars, and obtaining the 1/8th inch gap all around is one of the main contributing factors to bodywork restoration on the E Type costing so much.

I'm not sure that I understand what 'blend the transition' means...are you talking about reducing the gap or having, say, the door being perfectly flush with the rear wing, the sill and the 'A' post? The second point really is how they came out of the factory without filler (apart from lead-loading in the panel seams), so not sure how you can improve on this. If you're trying to reduce the clearances, it won't work but will catch when the door is opened. I can't imagine that you mean that though, as any filler around the edges of the door will chip off / crack very quickly after opening and closing the door a few times.

Perhaps a couple of photos of the area your talking about will help, and I'm happy to put some up as well in the same areas you're working on to see if that helps....just let me know.

[38E]

I did all the bodywork on my own restoration and I'm not sure I understand what you mean either.

Leveling and blending adjacent panels is one thing but obtaining the correct gap is something that needs to be set first and certainly not added with filler to a door edge, although hi-build urethane surfacers may give you some leeway.

If a gap cannot be adjusted any other way, a bead of weld may be required. Or, to increase a gap, a body panel may need to be cut, knocked back and re-welded to achieve a suitable gap.

I'd seen enough ripply poorly restored E Types that I knew I could never live with one so I put extra care into blending the fit of the doors, bulkhead and bonnet and generally smoothing out all the curves in the urethane hi-build. Like you, I applied a thin filler skim over the areas in question and then used 16" long flexible Hutchins plastic body files with Norton No-fil pre-cut paper.

I did almost no bare hand sanding at all. Too easy to put finger grooves into the surfacer. Every type of sanding needed a backing of some kind, short block, long block, piece of rubber hose, etc. For the gaps, maybe even just a regular fine thin steel file followed by sanding with a flat piece of steel as a backing.

I'm not sure Jaguar bodies were particularly any better than others. After all, they were made by Pressed Steel, Abbey Panels and others. I'm pretty sure that originally, a thick coat of stopper was applied which was then hand sanded before painting. It certainly looked that way under my original paint which I removed. The actual pressings were not really very good to start with and need a bit of help.

[ChrisC]

Thanks 38E, you are closest to understanding but not quite there...

Yes I am leveling and blending adjacent panels. But this is not about the gaps being closed with filler... I have those quite nice now and mostly used lead with final finishing being in a thin skim of filler.

The concept:
Imagine a box. It has square edges. What i want to do is round those sharp edges evenly along the full length of the sides. End result is a small rounded edge just like the original panels simple as that.

My attempts end up with an uneven rounding

[1954Etype]

Thanks 38E, you are closest to understanding but not quite there...

Yes I am leveling and blending adjacent panels. But this is not about the gaps being closed with filler... I have those quite nice now and mostly used lead with final finishing being in a thin skim of filler.

The concept:
Imagine a box. It has square edges. What i want to do is round those sharp edges evenly along the full length of the sides. End result is a small rounded edge just like the original panels simple as that.

My attempts end up with an uneven rounding

Chris,

give Andy at Hutsons a call. Their body guy is brilliant and I'm sure they will be more than happy to give advice.

[38E]

Thanks 38E, you are closest to understanding but not quite there...

...My attempts end up with an uneven rounding

Ok ChrisC, I think I see what you mean.

Assuming that the gap width is already about right, I'd say the first thing to do would be to get the leveling done. And by this I mean level the body across the gaps on adjacent panels without falling into the trap of rounding in the last 1/2 inch or so towards the gap. You see this mistake on plenty of professional jobs, causing a reflected highlight line to 'dog-leg' across the gaps instead of being straight and slick.

Then, when you have that established, carefully round the edges by starting with the sharp 90 deg edge that is presented to you after the leveling. I don't really remember any difficulty with that on my own job but I got the gaps right first. Maybe try starting first with a thin fine steel file which may give you more control that just sandpaper. Then sand carefully to finish.

Of course, you more or less have to do all this in two stages. First the major alignment with panel work, then lead, filler or both and then again but more precisely with the urethane hi-build that follows that. It's amazing the latitude you get from modern hi-build surfacer. Sometimes just a few thou will make the difference of whether you have a ripple or not and it will handle that easily.

[ChrisC]

Yep. Thanks, now you understand.

The leveling is complete. The gaps are complete. Its merely the rounding of the last 3mm to remove the sharp corners. I will keep trying... maybe I am trying to be too picky on the detail but it only costs time.