The 'E' Type Forum

Hi All,

I'm having to take the engine out of my series 2 fhc due to a snapped cylinder head stud.
While the engines out I thought I would have the Gearbox looked at, I have a bit of a whine in low gears but otherwise OK.
I was just wondering before I go to the expense, how quiet is the gearbox on a manual SII normally?

Thanks in advance for any responses

Cheers
Mark

Mark, my S2 FHC has no noticeable gearbox noise, if that helps

Geoff

No noise from mine either.

Thanks, I think I'll get it looked at

Anyone know a good reconditioned in the Midlands/ Worcester area?

Cheers. Mark

Hi Mark

I had my S2 engine and gearbox rebuilt last winter at CBR Classic Restorations. J10 of the M6.

Andy Waters, the proprietor, is one of the support mechanics on the E Type Round Britain runs. Good guy, knows his stuff and is sensibly priced.

No financial involvement but would get my recommendation - I was delighted with their work.

cheers
Ash

I took my moss box to All Gears in Worksop, who did a very good job.

"I was just wondering before I go to the expense, how quiet is the gearbox on a manual SII normally?"

Mine (S1 fitted with EJ gearbox) was whining in all three lower gears when I bought the car. Fourth is always quiet.
I've driven the car over 65,000 miles since then.
The gearbox still whines, but not any more than it used to.

If you can live with it......

Gfhug wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:39 pm

Mark, my S2 FHC has no noticeable gearbox noise, if that helps

Geoff

Mine all sound like concrete mixers. Reverse idler gear.

abowie wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:47 pm

Mine all sound like concrete mixers. Reverse idler gear.

Put some oil in Andrew!

Ok, I’ll admit not as quiet as a modern car but I’m not driving along thinking what a noisy gearbox

Mine is quite noisy, despite new bearings etc. There is a noise when the clutch pedal is released in neutral (disappears when depressed), and the intermediate gears whine a bit too. I thought it was quite a noisy box until I drove SNG Barrett’s S1 4.2 (50EE) and found it was just the same as mine.

there is only one guy to refurbish any type of jaguar gearbox. ken evans. Klassic transmissions. very sensible prices. top quality workmanship. the trade use him all the time. when Nigel Webbs dtype finished lemans 24 hours with on of kens boxes I was convinced!
he has built 6 boxes for me. just perfect.
ken is in the midlands

SimonBrown wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:38 pm

There is a noise when the clutch pedal is released in neutral (disappears when depressed)

First idler gear. They're straight cut and get damaged in all the boxes.

Andrew Wrote:

First idler gear. They're straight cut and get damaged in all the boxes.

Hello Andrew,
There are no Straight Cut gears in a Jaguar 4 speed, all synchro gearbox, they are all helical. However, the noise Simon referred to is caused by the Reverse Idler Gear. When the Reverse Idler Gear is in the forward position, when Neutral, or a Forward Gear is selected, the Gear on the Lay Shaft Cluster is engaged with the part of the Reverse Idler that engages with Reverse Gear when its being driven. In this position, as shown in the first picture below, the noise Simon referred to is heard.



Move the Reverse Idler Gear to the rear position, as shown in the second picture below, where it would be when engaged with Reverse Gear, the noise disappears



I have a rig, whereby the gears can be spun up for diagnostic purposes. In the test performed on the gearbox shown in the above pictures, the Main Shaft and all its gears were removed from the gearbox so that the Reverse Idler Gear was isolated. At a glance and without the benefit of the above test, one would say that there was nothing wrong with the Reverse Idler Gear, but under close examination, wear on the flanks of the tooth form in the area that engages with Reverse Gear can be detected; rather surprising given the relative low mileage traveled in Reverse compared to any Forward Gear.

The picture following show two versions of Reverse Idler Gears used. The gear on the left is from an S3 gearbox, the one on the right, from an S2. I'm not sure when the change was made, as the parts are identical except for the annular groove and I've seen S2 Gearboxes with the annular grooved Reverse Idler Gear, that clearly hasn't been a replacement. I suspect that this groove was introduced so that the sides of the groove acted like Oil Slingers. I doubt this extra operation was added just for the Hell of It, or as the fishermen say, "just for the Halibut", and I can see no other purpose for it.



The shaft that the Reverse Idler Gear runs on is nearly always worn considerably in the area where the Reverse Idler Gear would be when engaged with Reverse Gear. Once this shaft is worn in this area, wear of the tooth form in the area of the gear that engages with Reverse Gear is exacerbated. I now make my own shafts out of better material than that used in the original. See the part in the picture below.



Regards,

Bill

Hi Bill...great detail as always from you......much appreciated.....Steve

Bill, are you saying that changing that shaft will reduce/cure the noise and that using your improved shaft will do so for longer?

Thanks,
David

David Wrote:

Bill, are you saying that changing that shaft will reduce/cure the noise and that using your improved shaft will do so for longer?

Hello David,
No. Once the Reverse Idler Gear is worn/damaged, the only remedy is to replace it. The typical wear that you see with the shaft that the Reverse Idler Gear runs on, changes the mesh of the gears slightly and usually results in accelerated wear of the gear form. I should have added that comment to my previous Post and that, if the Reverse Idler Gear is replaced, the shaft (if worn) should also, so as to avoid rapid wear of the new gear.

Regards,

Bill

mgcjag wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:56 am

Hi Bill...great detail as always from you......much appreciated.....Steve

Yup; I live and learn. Was thinking about the Moss in bits on my bench.

Morning all.

Sorry to hijack a thread, but would any of you guys know where I can purchase the reverse idler bushes?

I'm currently rebuilding a 67 S1 4.2 all synchro.

I've been hunting across the web but ideally would like some in the UK for speed of delivery.

No luck with the normal suppliers.

Thanks in advance.

Ben Wrote:

I've been hunting across the web but ideally would like some in the UK for speed of delivery.

No luck with the normal suppliers.

Hello Ben,
If by normal suppliers, you mean the usual Jaguar Parts suppliers, I doubt that any of them carry that part. You should, however, be able to source a suitable Oilite Bearing from a bearing supply outlet. If you can't find the correct size part, you would be able to get something quite close and have it machined to size.

Regards,

Bill