Advice with wire wheels

[ChrisCtype]

Ok I’m new to wire wheels
I would like advice on should I use rim tape or rim band as I’ve read about edges causing issues with bands. I’ve also read about tape lifting. So recommendations please which to use and what make recommended. I found tape recommendations on US forums but can’t find these tapes in U.K.
When fitting tubes should the valve have a guide inserted into the wheel valve hole, I read a recommendation for this but this was on a triumph website but my MWS wheels seem sized to the tubes valve size
Apologies for possible stupid questions but it’s something I really don’t want to make a mistake on
Thanks
Chris

[mgcjag]

As as starter have a look here....should give you plenty of info https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... tubes.html

[ChrisCtype]

Steve
Thanks, I had read that but was more interested in others experience/ recommendations

[mgcjag]

Well no other replies probably becaus its all in the Longstone site and many are on tubeless wheels......in the past iv had quite a few tubed spoke wheels......Michelin rim bands/tape and Michelin inner tubes havent used or heard of valve guide inserts.....Steve

[tim wood]

Hi Chris,
Forgot to mention, on my previous car I had tubeless with bolt in valves.
Can’t recall about rim tape but I assume that as tubeless then it wasn’t needed.

On reading this it looks like a useless post !

Tim

[ChrisCtype]

Tim, I think my question is possibly useless as I really wanted experience/advice from users rather than suppliers, I'll just go with my instinct

[mgcjag]

Experiance and advice would say go tubeless .....or as my advice for tubed wires above . ...Steve

[abowie]

All the MWS wheels I have used are tubeless and have the spoke holes sealed with a thick layer of silicone.

If the nipple heads are exposed they will potentially damage a tube. In this situation you need to use rubber strips that protect the tubes.

Personally I wouldn't buy a wheel unless it was tubeless.

[dougal]

Hi

This link should offer you rim tapes and valve collar inserts.

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... -ca67.html

It also offers the 185VR15 Cinturato which i am hoping to get back in stock before Christmas as this is the best non powersteering E-type tyre.

I don't think an e-type generally needs the valve collars. It is a funny awkward little issue. there was a period where some inner tubes came with wider valve stems, then there are also lots of wheels where the valve hole is drilled out to fit the wide valve stem.

rim tapes we offer a rubber rim tape, which works well.

the tubeless wire wheel is a mine feild. there is absolutely no need to fit a tubeless wire wheel. Fitting anything lower than a 70% profile tyre on an e-type will spoil the drive of the car. Any tyre full profile (like a 185R15) or 70% profile (like a 205/70R15 or ER/70R15) can be fitted with an inner tube.

We have come accross too many failed tubeless wire wheel. E-type jaguars restored by famous restorers presented to famous customers daughters revealed as christmas presents with 2 flat tyres. Men shouting down the phone at us on the side of a motorway in a DB5 on his second flat tyre. we just dont even want to go there.

[paydase]

I appreciate the advice from Dougal, including the video showing the leak.
However, following his advice, I would have expected a vido showing leaks at the level of wire nipples, not at the rim edge.
Rim edge leak only demonstates a bad sealing when fitting the tire, or maybe a bad fitting due to the absence of shoulders.
Dougal, do you have another video showing leaks at nipples?

[mgcjag]

I cant remember any other member apart from Dougal reporting problems with tubeless wire wheels.....there are thousands used on classic cars...If it was a problem we would have heard about it.......Steve

[Fred]

I purchased 4 tubeless wire wheels, with stainless spokes, while my car was being restored. After 2 months sitting in storage 2 were flat and would not hold air for long. Tubes were installed, provided by the seller at no cost. When the car was finished and I was driving it, another would loose air at about 1 or 2psi per day. That one and the remaining one were then fitted with tubes. No air loss since.

[mgcjag]

Hi Fred.....were they new wheels(what manufacturer)...or second hand....i know in the US from the Jag Lovers forum that some owners have taken a standard wire wheel and added sealer to make it tubeless......are yours actuall tubelless wheels......Steve

[Fred]

Hi Steve. They are new (2017) Dayton tubeless wires wheels with stainless spokes, purchased from Universal Tire in Hershey PA. Dunlop SP Sport 185x15 tires installed by them. No issues with tubes subsequently installed.

[mgcjag]

Hi Fred...thanks for the reply.....just had a search and found on Jag Lovers that a couple of others have had problems with Daytona leaks.....where air was seaping from where the spoke went into a nipple nut....on inspection they found that inside the spokes were just sealed with individual spots of sealant........Did you contact Daytona technical.......Steve

[Fred]

Sorry for the delay but we were out of town over the holidays. Dayton provided the first two tubes for free and at cost for the second two since it had been quite a while since i reported the second problem with the slow leak. Happy New Year.

[caveman]

Thanks for video Dougal, very informative and totally agree with using tubes.

[markc555]

Interesting stuff and quite a bit to understand. My thoughts and questions...

Per Dougal's video (linked above) the tubeless wheel and tyre were designed as a system to enhance safety. The tubeless wheel incorporates a rib rolled in the band of the wheel toward outer edge of each side of the wheel rim. The tubeless tyre incorporates a steel band moulded into it's inner and outer rims that seats over the safety ribs to stop the tyre rolling off the rim if run deflated. The loud pop/bang you hear when a new tyre is (over)inflated is the tyre band slipping noisily over the safety rim and hitting the outer edge of the wheel rim!

So a "tubeless" wheel is one designed to work with a "tubeless" tyre as above and the term really has nothing to do with the spoke sealing of a wire wheel? However if you're going to take the term tubeless at face value the spoke fixings quite obviously have to be air tight for the wheel to be of any use!

Tyres with a profile less that 70% should not be used with tubes. Presumably due to the tubes inflation profile and how it would contact the inside walls of the tyre?

Presumably new "tubeless" wire wheels from MWS, Dayton, PJH etc have safety ribs rolled into their bands? I can't actually tell from any of the pics on their respective websites. These wheels can be used with or without tubes with the twin caveats that a) rim bands are used to protect the tube from the spoke heads and b) the inside of the tubeless tyre is smooth so that it won't damage the tube in use?

Original fit E Type wire wheels like those on my S2 FHC (15x5 easy clean hubs) won't have safety ribs and regardless of whether the spokes are sealed and/or if "tubeless" tyres are fitted (70% profile or greater) should be used with inner tubes?

[gtjoey]

Just my 2 cents with tubeless tires and SEALED WIRE WHEELS.
IMHO.....Ive been running sealed /tubeless for close to 25 years........
I started with Dayton, Id say mid 1990's ,Those never failed BUT There quality has fallen off the mapin the last 5 plus years, IMHO.
I have switched to MWS on all my projects.
MWS quality is GREAT , fit and finish they are superior. I have not have a wheel weight close to 2 ounces !
Things to understand .........
My 1967 E type runs Michelin XWX with MWS tubeless wheels. They are perfect and hold air forever.
The tire was designed tubeless to go along with the wheel.
MY 1960 AC ACECA RUNS MWS SEALED AS WELL BUT NEEDS TUBES! WHY? BECAUSE THE CORRECT TIRE IS THE MICHELIN 5.50 AND THEY ARE TUBE TIRES.......
IF YOU USE OLD FASHIONED PERIOD TUBE TIRES YOU NEED A TUBE , THE SEALING RUNBBER ON THE TIRE IS NOT THICK ENOUGH AND WILL BLEED AIR!
So tube tire, tubes
Seal wire wheel wiih modern tire no tube.
Now you can always use a tube with the new sealed rims for extra safety, Just use alot of poweder!
Hope this helps.....Good luck
MWS ON MY
ASTON MARTIN DB4
MARK 2 JAGUAR.
ETYPE
AC ACECA
OTHER ETYPE:)
DB2 ASTON
So much more....
GTJOEY1314

[Tommd]

Mark, I would not agree with your assessment. Some history:
The safety rim was first used in the early 1940's, I believe by Dodge. The bump on the rim was designed to keep the tire on the rim after a loss of air pressure. This was before the tubeless tire.
The first successful tubeless tire was BF Goodrich in the late 1940's. It was used on the standard rims of the time that would hold air. Thus, a welded steel rim would work, and old Modet T Ford rim would not. The tubeless tire was designed to be safer.
For years, the safety rim and tubeless tire were used side by side, but not always together. Many cars through the 1950's to 1970's may have come with tube tires, with or without safety rims, and then the customer installed tubeless later. No change in rim.
As safety became more of an issue, safety rims became standard/required (late 1960's early 1970's?)
The tubeless tire is safer for several reasons. One being that in a tube type tire, the tube is constantly squirming in the tire, thus building heat. Heat causes tire failure. No tube, less heat, less failure. One might think a tubeless tire would be safer with a tube. After all, if the tube fails, the tire will still hold air. Not true. The tube causes more heat which can cause tire failure, not tube failure. If the tire fails due to heat, the failure is not a leak, it is catastrophic.
If a tube is installed in a tubeless tire, the speed rating should be downrated to account for the additional heat. Also, tubes require additional installation care. If a tube is installed in a tubeless tire, the inside of a tubeless tire should be checked for smoothness, as rough spots can cause additional failure points.
There is a tubeless tire, there is a safety rim. There are rims that do not hold air (Model T, wire rims, some multipiece) but there are not specific tubeless rims.
IMO, tubes in tubeless tires are fine. I used them on wire wheels. But one should understand.
I am happy to hear any corrections.