How important is matching numbers...?

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Thim
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:19 pm
Norway

#1 How important is matching numbers...?

Post by Thim » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:16 am

Hey guys, me and my brother was looking at a beautiful E-type S2 open-two-seater (OTS) LHD yesterday. It was in good condition probably restored in the early 2000's but the engine block had a different number from the Tag Plate.

Engine nr: 8L20970-S
The tag plates engine nr: 7R3221-9

We are 99% sure the engine block is from a XJ6 at some point, the gearbox seem to be a E-type gearbox, but we did not manage to read the numbers. This means we have a decently good car without matching numbers and we wonder if anyone have a opinion on the value impact this will have on the car. I will assume a drawback of 20% is reasonly to assume?

Info of the car:
Jaguar E-type S2, OTS USA version (two carbs). Dark Blue paintjob (good looking with minor damage in a few places) light beige interior in good condition. Softtop is very bad and need to be replaced. Steel Wheels. The bonnet needs to be resprayed along with the tailgate. Electric fan and wrong paintcodes on several parts, such as the front and rear suspesion.

We want to fix it up with new paint on the bonnet, new soft top, new wire wheels, engine out and engine bay touchup + new clutch + new seals on crankshaft + (possibly tripple weber carb setup). if it was a matching numbers car we estimate the sale to be 80.000 pound, but since it's not matching numbers we are unsure if we should to this deal... Opinions? :bigrin:
Jaguar E-type s1, 1967 2+2. Under restoration by myself, slowly seeing the light at the end of the tunnel 👍

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lopena
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#2 Re: How important is matching numbers...?

Post by lopena » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:32 am

I usually assign a 30% discount to a non-matching numbers car. Others will discount them more or less.

Good luck,
Alan
N.J.

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mgcjag
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#3 Re: How important is matching numbers...?

Post by mgcjag » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:35 am

Hi Thim......how is or will the car be registered in your country....will the later engine details affect its historic status or registration.....Obviously the car details have to be on your registration documents.....Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) & Building a C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc

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abowie
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#4 Re: How important is matching numbers...?

Post by abowie » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:42 am

LHD good for Norway.

8L is an XJ6 engine. So non matching numbers.

But. A BIG but.

In my view, non matching numbers is the least of your problems.

The bonnet needs to be resprayed along with the tailgate €2000+ maybe, but to make it all work you'll probably resrpay the whole car. Triple that.

New soft top €2000

new wire wheels with hubs €3000

engine out and engine bay touchup + new clutch + new seals on crankshaft €5000+

possibly triple weber carb setup €5000

So at minimum, assuming you have found all of the problems with this car, you're up for €18000-€22000 on top of the price of the car.

At your projected 20% discounted buy price, plus your spend, with a total, you'd be much better off looking at better car.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 3.4l Mk2. 1975 XJS.
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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Thim
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Norway

#5 Re: How important is matching numbers...?

Post by Thim » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:27 am

mgcjag wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:35 am
Hi Thim......how is or will the car be registered in your country....will the later engine details affect its historic status or registration.....Obviously the car details have to be on your registration documents.....Steve
I'm pretty sure that a classic registration here in Norway is no problem with a replacement block like this. But it will limit how far it can drive each year etc.
Jaguar E-type s1, 1967 2+2. Under restoration by myself, slowly seeing the light at the end of the tunnel 👍

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Thim
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#6 Re: How important is matching numbers...?

Post by Thim » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:34 am

I have done the math and the investment costs are a bit higher than what we had hoped they would be. We will do the work ourself so we estimate a 10.000 pound part/paint investment to get the car in very, very good condition. + many hours of work.

I appreciate your answers, they steer us to the right decision... But do you know how common it is whit this type of engine swap? Most of the E-types I see for sale often do not mention if the car is numbers matching or not...

--// And the sales prices after investments, do you think 80.000 pounds are possible for a not numbers matching E-type s II cab, with triple webers, newly engine overhaul + IRS and new softop? --\\
Jaguar E-type s1, 1967 2+2. Under restoration by myself, slowly seeing the light at the end of the tunnel 👍

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mgcjag
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#7 Re: How important is matching numbers...?

Post by mgcjag » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:39 am

£80k will give a buyer a lot of choice....webbers and an xj6 block wouldnt put yours at the top of a buyers list in my opinion. .....Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) & Building a C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc

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dlgis
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#8 Re: How important is matching numbers...?

Post by dlgis » Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:08 pm

From your description (and you may be being cautiously critical about the current condition), I would say 80k sounds a lot for the car when compared with UK auction prices. And from personal experience I’d say the cost of improving an etype ends up being a lot more than you first think, but maybe you have a lot more experience on this than I do :bigrin:
Darryl
1964 S1 FHC 3.8 opalescent maroon
2007 XKR convertible

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Thim
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#9 Re: How important is matching numbers...?

Post by Thim » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:50 am

Yea, I guess you're right Steve. It certainly is not on my top list, i like to have the number's original and matching. I have an offer to buy it for 46.000 pound, but I think I will let it pass unless he drops to 37.000 pounds. That's a price I can work with and get my money + working hours back. Thanks for the comments and opinions! :bigrin:
Jaguar E-type s1, 1967 2+2. Under restoration by myself, slowly seeing the light at the end of the tunnel 👍

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markc555
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#10 Re: How important is matching numbers...?

Post by markc555 » Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:44 pm

Matching numbers is primarily an American (market) hang up.

IHMO it's only really important for very rare and highly collectable cars that trade for a LOT of money. Possibly as much as 50% for "unicorn" Ferrari's, Aston's, Pre War Alfa's etc. The sort of cars that hardly ever get driven anyway!

It's kind of nice to know your car still has the same engine it (the chassis no.) left the factory with but much more important that the engine in it is in good health. Maybe upto a 10% premium for 2 more run of the mill classics in otherwise identical condition :questionmarks:
1969 S2 FHC (Opalescent Maroon) 1R26120

"The older I get, the faster I was"

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