Utmost joy tonight

[tim wood]

After a day of fighting with it, wrestling with it, swearing at it and generally abusing it.

The inlet manifold gasket gave up and succumbed to the inevitable greater force.

[Allrand]

[tim wood]

Thanks Randall,
Unfortunately my joy was short lived.
O
Although the manifold gasket had become away from joint the manifold remains resolutely unwilling to come away.
It’s clearly very loose on the lower studs but won’t make the final journey to the work bench !
I thought that I had it solved by removing all of the studs on the top flange ( using the “double nut” method and then the manifold was loose.
I’ve left it soaked in releasing fluid and will go back later.

When the studs were removed it was clear that they had corroded into the head and that with gasket sealant on the unthreaded part I can see what the problem is.
The job was part of a plan to remove the cylinder head from a refurb. But I guess now that I will take the head off with the carbs attached.

My cam wheels are the scalloped type so I’m changing those as well. Which leads to another issue……
The wire locking isn’t present so someone has been in before. As a distraction from the manifold sage I thought that I would just slightly loose the camshaft bolts. Only a very slight turn. Well the last person must have been mighty strong. I had to use a metre long bar just crack these off !

[chrisfell]

No lockwire and stubborn bolts? Sounds like someone used locktite instead of lockwire.

[tim wood]

Had crossed my mind as well.
Will see once the bolts are removed- traces of loctite will be visible.

[tim wood]

For those that may be reading this pointless thread I am pleased to report that the manifold finally gave up the unequal fight and is now resting with sorrow on the workbench !

It was a struggle. Finally helped I think by using a couple of those small plastic wedges normally found for tiling and floor laying and driving these into the slight gap twixt manifold and head.

The remaining studs are a right mess and the manifold face will need an extensive cleanup.

Next job is remove the head. Luckily I have a short stud block although no doubt surprises await !!

Tim

[DWW]

It would have been less pointless if photos were enclosed

[mgcjag]

Keep up the good work....of course we all read these threads. ..a thread with a bit of humour is gar more interesting than some of the rants we get

[tim wood]

So the work continues. The manifolds are off and the camshaft drives all undone.
As noted a bit earlier the camshaft bolts were missing the lockwire but had been tightened by a gorilla.
No sign of loctite on these which surprised me a bit.

I spent about a week dripping plus gas down the head studs which proved worthwhile as the head gave up its grip after a slight persuasion with a bottle jack. Probably could have lifted it without but I’m bent over the car and it’s quite a weight.

I have a question or 2
With the head lifted I can see the pistons are well coked up. Should I remove this leaving just a ring of the coke around the edge - or just leave as is?

With the engine a TDC, crank damper aligned with the pointer and cams lined up with the tool I can see that numbers 1& 6 pistons are maybe 5mm below the block surface. Is this normal or maybe the crank isn’t in the correct position. I don’t have a DTI so advice would be useful.

Thanks.
( the head will be off to CMES for rebuild)

Tim

[Gfhug]

Tim, using a dti to check for TDC can be susceptible to errors. You might wish to use this way to check for TDC:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20267&start=20 And the linked topic within is the better explanation.

Geoff

[Simonpfhc]

Hi Tim,

To help with one of your questions, here is a picture from a recent engine rebuild I completed showing piston height at TDC. It’s not quite flush with the deck:

[tim wood]

Thanks both,
Simon, mine appear significantly further down the bore than yours. Difficult to absolutely certain as the head is still in place ( half way up the studs) I will see more once the head is off.


Tim

[mgcjag]

Hi Tim....how far do you want to go....the head is off for a rebuild.....how about a set of new rings...and clean all the carbon off the pistons....last thing you want is broken bits of carbon in your new valves....Steve

[tim wood]

Hi Steve,
I’m afraid I’m susceptible to shipwrights disease (!) afraid this may end up as a virtual engine rebuild.
If I push the pistons out then I may as well do the big ends, oil pump , thrust washers etc.
If I’ve got the sump and head off then may as well have a look at the timing chains………..

I had the sump off last year to change the crank and sump seals , would have been sensible to do the lot then I suppose.

I hopeful just to stop at a head job.
Think I’ll clean the piston crowns.


Tim

[mgcjag]

you know it makes sense....off the road over the winter....ready for easter

[Gfhug]

Are those pistons in post 11 the higher compressions ones? Could yours be the lower compression ones that would give you a greater depth on your measurement?

Geoff

[abowie]

Are those pistons in post 11 the higher compressions ones? Could yours be the lower compression ones that would give you a greater depth on your measurement?

Geoff

High compression pistons have a bigger dome but I'm pretty sure that the piston to deck clearance is the same.

The clearance to my eye in that pic looks ok; from vague memory it should be about 100 thou.

WRT rebuilding the bottom end for the OP. My approach has been that if the engine's out of the car then stripping the bottom end is a good idea. Limited cost and work for a big benefit in peace of mind. If you've got the head off with the engine in the car, leave it alone unless you really suspect a bottom end problem.

[tim wood]

The head is now off and once again it didn’t give up without a struggle.
This is a short stud block but the studs still show corrosion where the alloy has interacted with the steel.
It would have been nigh on impossible for 1 man and probably 2 to lift this off. I used one of those cheap winches offered by many sellers but basically all the same. I picked one up from gumtree for £30 brand new and mounted this on a sliding frame between the joists in the garage. I think that they are rated at 250kg but I’m not sure I’d trust it that far.

So the head will be off to CMES on Monday .

Time for coffee and a mince pie!

Tim

[Gfhug]

What about the height of the pistons, Tim? Or are you still eating mince pies and hence to busy to check?

Geoff

[tim wood]

Hi Geoff,
I’m more relaxed about the piston height now I’ve been able get a better view.
Pleased that I will be rid of the scalloped cam drives.
Working through the head studs which are being a sod to remove, I’m using my (inherited from my dad) stud remover.
No cracks between the bores which I was worried about.

Think I should have a shouldered stud but doesn’t seem to present.