The 'E' Type Forum

I just returned home from the Fairfield County Concours d'Elegance in Connecticut, USA. There were approximately 20 E-Types including the oldest E-Type in the USA. While there, I learned that less than one percent of all E-Types were originally painted black. This number seems very low to me. Can anybody confirm this figure? Thanks. David ?

I have seen some percentages somewhere and black cars were indeed very rare. MarkE, who has a black FHC, may be able to help?

I had heard it was about 500 cars, which is a little less than 1%. But how accurate the figure is I don't know.

I?m sure that it would be a very low number, whatever the stats or pub talk. Think how many red, light blue, dark blue, gunmetal, white, green and yellow cars you've seen, and then think how many black ones you have seen. At the recent Silverstone gathering of around 800 E Types, I didn't see a black S1 or S2, although I'm sure I didn't see them all!

Black was a very unpopular colour in the UK and Europe in the 1960s. So many pre-war cars were black, and folks wanted something a bit brighter. I'm beginning to wonder if any black E Types were supplied to the UK market at all, apart from the 49 Series 3 run-off cars. But I have seen 3 or 4 on eBay for sale in the USA that are original black, usually out in California (where mine came from) or Texas.

It does suit the E type, especially with the red trim, although I am a little biased! It has two drawbacks that I can think of.

Firstly, the paint preparation has to be absolutely perfect. Any issues with panels or paint will be very obvious, and therefore paint and body repairs tend to be more expensive.

Secondly, it looks fabulous for about the first 30 minutes after polishing. Then the cat walks on it, dust seems to be attracted to it like a magnet, and when you take it out in the rain it looks like somebody has splashed grey watery paint all over it!

MarkE wrote: It has two drawbacks that I can think of.

Firstly, the paint preparation has to be absolutely perfect. Any issues with panels or paint will be very obvious, and therefore paint and body repairs tend to be more expensive.

This is quite true, and is the reason Sir William always insisted that prototypes be mocked-up in black, so that the light lines were easier to spot and any styling glitches stood out more clearly. In practice, and dark colour such as dark blue gives a similar effect but black is definitely the best/worst, depending on your point of view.

I've never heard the 1% statistic but a very low number is totally believable for the reasons mentioned. Had the car been large enough to fit a body(ies) in the boot, doubtless a slow but steady demand from the Mafia would have lifted the percentage a little higher. Ditto hearse duties, although there's always the Harold and Maude FHC complete with dumb irons...

Pete

Mark, although, as the owner of a Series 1 black coupe with red interior (original colors), I might be a bit bias, your car looks terrific. It apppears that black was much more popular in the States. Yesterday, out of the 15-20 E-Types gathered at the Fairfield Cocourse, 2 were black. Mine did not atttend as I had the family with me (drove the XJR). I have seen a number of black cars up at auction over the years (including, I believe, one recently offered in Switzerland) and had no idea the color was so unusual. If anyone on the Forum has it, I would be very interested in seeing the breakdown of the number of cars produced in each color as I do not believe I have ever seen that before.

David

Hi all, greetings again from Down Under (aka the Land of Oz....)
Couldn't resist chucking a few words at this subject, I have been swithering (Old Scottish dialect meaning vacillate....) over the final colour of my Series 1 2+2 projectfor some time now..... been a great fan of black on certain cars, for many years, and after drooling over the pic of Mark's FHC (need to do something about the background weeds in the garden, though, Mark.....!) so here we go.........As per the comments made, black is one of the most unforgiving colours to use, every imperfection shows, and the higher the final gloss on hand-finishing, the worse it gets (ask me how I know....) Having said that, as I do all my own body repairs/filling/finishing, and paint spraying, it is only a matter of blood, sweat and tears over unthinkable time to get it right...and the result is well worthwhile. Major cost impact in the Land of Oz is that one will then have to air-condition the vehicle, and I am looking at some kits ex UK, in that regard. The other aspect I have been giving some consideration to is that a dark colour tends to minimize the higher profile of the Series 1 2+2 FHC with the higher angle windscreen, compared with, say, white, yellow, or the ever-popular pink.......(!!) My views on the utility and positives of the 2+2 have been expressed in a previous post, so we won't go there again.....My serious alternative at the moment is Dark Blue Opalescent, not correct for the year, but then again, I'm not seriously comitted to originality, at least it's a gorgeous Jaguar colour.....
Best regards to all on the Forum,
Norman,
Western Australia.

Mark : the car looks lovely in Black, but what I particularly admire is that you were able to get down low enough to take it from that angle! On the subject of how rare they were, the first time I ever saw a black E type was on top of the Grossglockner in about 1985, and that was a S3 OTS which wouldn't start. The American user just would not accept that his insistence on using full choke ( at 9000 feet!!) was the reason but eventually we persuaded him to try full throttle and no choke . Black was rare even on the saloons in the 1960s. I recall when my Father got his second mark 10, in 1965 , in Black with Red interior, it created a lot of interest, and the only other Black saloon I used to see at that time was a 3.4, despite at that time travelling regularly over wide stretches of the UK . I think, however, that some police forces bought Black S types

norman m. macleod wrote: The other aspect I have been giving some consideration to is that a dark colour tends to minimize the higher profile of the Series 1 2+2 FHC with the higher angle windscreen, compared with, say, white, yellow, or the ever-popular pink.......(!!) ...

I agree that a dark colour suits the 2+2.

However there is of course no such thing as a steeper or 'higher angle' windscreen on any 2+2. No matter how many times this is repeated by everyone from Paul Skilleter downwards it simply isn't true. The Series 1 2+2 screen has an identical angle to every short wheelbase car, it is just a little taller, not steeper.

Pete

OK OK Pete.....
The main thrust of my comments was to opine that a dark colour suited the 2+2's, to some degree lessening the visual impact of the increased height. I am pleased you agree... And, yes, I do agree that the windscreen angle on the Series 1 2+2 is the same as the SWB cars. However, the term "steep-screen" for the Series 1 screens has crept in, albeit incorrect, and even Haddock uses it in his excellent publication. Not wishing to invoke frantic pedantic semantics to any serious degree (pun intended....) it would be more correct to refer to the Series 2 2+2 windscreen as a lower-angled screen, as a result of the moving of the lower screen edge out to almost the scuttle edge. The comparison photographs on p48 of Skilleter's book "A Collecter's Guide" only compares the screen angle of the Series 2 2+2 with the rest, (Series 1 2+2's and all SWB's which are all, of course, the same........)
Best regards,
Norman,
Perth, Western Australia.

The main thrust of my post was to agree with you Norman :-) Dark colours suit the 2+2.

I should know, I've just repainted mine to it's Heritage Certificate colour - Opalescent Silver Grey :-(

Bit naughty to use the 'P' word though, when we're a specialist forum that should be in the business of correcting incorrect information about E-types. The more widely-believed the errors, the greater the onus to correct them I would have thought? If we don't promote accuracy, error becomes truth and white becomes black...

..or maybe Indigo Blue :-)

Yours amicably
Pete

Thanks Pete,
You are quite correct....we contribute to a Forum that should disseminate accurate information about the cars that we espouse so dearly, there are enough Suburban Myths and Old Wives' Tales out there to require a determined and responsible effort on our part to correct them, usually amplified in many cases, by Friday Night Pub Experts who have never actually owned one......I was therefore a tad confused with your reference to my use of the "P"-word, until, after trawling through the comments in my post(s), I realized that it probably referred to that most unlikely colour I had invoked (another 4-letter word......!) for a 2+2. Rest assured that that comment was delivered in jest only (as I am sure you and others on the Forum would have realized.....) but I do take your point, and am appropriately chastised/rebuked........
P.S. Sold the Triumph T100S on the weekend.....Yippee!...More than enough to buy the ETF 5-speed box.....
Best regards,
Norman.
Perth, Western Australia.

norman m. macleod wrote:Thanks Pete,
You are quite correct....we contribute to a Forum that should disseminate accurate information about the cars that we espouse so dearly, there are enough Suburban Myths and Old Wives' Tales out there to require a determined and responsible effort on our part to correct them, usually amplified in many cases, by Friday Night Pub Experts who have never actually owned one......I was therefore a tad confused with your reference to my use of the "P"-word, until, after trawling through the comments in my post(s), I realized that it probably referred to that most unlikely colour I had invoked (another 4-letter word......!) for a 2+2. Rest assured that that comment was delivered in jest only (as I am sure you and others on the Forum would have realized.....) but I do take your point, and am appropriately chastised/rebuked........
P.S. Sold the Triumph T100S on the weekend.....Yippee!...More than enough to buy the ETF 5-speed box.....
Best regards,
Norman.
Perth, Western Australia.

ETF 5 Speed gearbox? Good luck and let us know how you get on!

Hi Angus,
Sure I can let you know how I get on re the gearbox. However, it will be some time away, re use and function, as, although I will be ordering it shortly, this is only to take advantage of the exchange rate prevailing at this time, with a very high Oz dollar cf. the UK pound. The unit will not be actually installed in the car for some time. I was a bit concerned about your "good luck" wishes.....is there something I should know? Please PM or e-mail me if you have any comments. I have already received sub-frames, front disc brake kits, ally radiator, etc., from the same supplier, and they are absolutely superb................
Best regards,
Norman.

My 3.8 was converted from opal dk blue to black a long time ago, while still in the US. Properly done as the original colour is nowhere to be seen.
I still own the car. It?s an OTS.
My latest acquisition is Willow green, which I have always liked. Apparently the favourite colour of Sir William. This car has always been willow green. I got a HT for it which is painted in that same colour, rather than black, which I considered for a while.
Willow green must be very very rare on a S1 car (it too, is an OTS). I have seen S2 and S2 cars in that colour but never a S1.

There is a late S1 OTS in Germany for sale. It is Cotswold blue, another of my favourite colours, though perhaps more so on an XK. I might look at it when I next drive from Sweden to Switzerland, which I do with my old cars several times a year.