Price hierarchy between models

[barnesy1977]

Hi all,

I'm in the UK and looking to purchase an E Type in the next couple of months but I am unsure which model/engine to purchase (from an investment point of view). With the S1 V12 Roadster being at the top of the list in terms of value (and way out of my price range!), I'd be interested to know what people think is the next most desirable and likely to rise in value (I know nobody has a crystal ball but I am just after opinions) ?

Would it be a Series 1 4.2 Coupe, or Series 2 4.2 Roadster, or Series 3 V12 Roadster/Coupe etc ? i.e., what trumps what between a Roadster model, a Series 2 and a V12 engine

Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated :-)

Many thanks in advance
David

[abowie]

There were no Series 1 V12s.

Price order is more or less the inverse of age, with older cars worth more.

Roadsters are worth more than coupes.
2+2 coupes are worth less than coupes.
Manual cars are worth more than automatics.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but S1 3.8l roadsters seem to be the most expensive cars. Many prefer the S1 body over the S2.

If you are buying for investment, as with all art, provinence is all. Although some will disagree "matching numbers", original delivery to your country (so no LHD to RHD conversion) will add value to the car. If it has been owned by someone famous or has racing history, ditto.

With classic cars, bodywork is all. Mechanical problems are usually relatively cheap and easy to fix; you can rebuild an E type 6 cylinder engine to a very high standard and get change from 5k quid. If on the other hand the car you buy is full of filler, rust and has been bodged up fixing this is far more difficult.

Of your 3 choices above I would buy the S1 coupe every time.

[barnesy1977]

Many thanks for the reply there. Apologies - I'd for some reason assumed the S1 Roadsters were V12 (I'd not researched them as I already knew they were out of price range).

In the UK a S1 Coupe is around ?70k - ?100k and are really just out of price range too. I guess I'll be choosing between a S2 4.2 Coupe or a S3 V12 Coupe (both seem to be the same price- circa ?45k- ?60k ?). S3 Roadsters also seem to be out of range now too (circa ?70 +)

Regards
David

[christopher storey]

David : if you are buying as an investment without really knowing anything about the cars you are paddling in very dangerous waters indeed . All the 6 cylinder models , but particularly the S1 cars , have seen big increases in price over the last 2 years or so , and what goes up suddenly - and for no good reason - can just as easily come down just as suddenly and dramatically . The V12 has not seen the same inflation, and the cars have frankly become unpopular and are not sought after, hence their investment potential is limited, and a V12 2+2 is probably seen as the least attractive of all. Personally, my advice would be unequivocal : do not buy these cars as an investment

[PeterCrespin]

Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated :-)

My thought David is please spoil somebody else's hobby by driving up their prices out of the range of enthusiasts. I'm all for people who want one to drive for its own sake, not as an investment.

Pete

[barnesy1977]

Peter what a pathetic response!

I am very much a car enthusiast and cars have been a huge part of my life. I am happy to purchase one of several classic cars and so naturally I would rather chose one which is likely to rise in value than not! I would use it like any other classic car. It is none of your business what cars people chose to buy and for what reason. Does the same apply with someone investing in a pension or buying a holiday home ? If you having nothing constructive to write or a relevant opinion on the initial query then take your troll-like opinions elsewhere. How dare you write such a message to somebody!

[Gfhug]

I think that before you start making those sort of responses Barnesy you should search through the forum for a while to appreciate just how much benefit Peter's advice has been to everyone.
Also a thorough review of the many posts on all subjects will give you a better appreciation of the E Type before submitting a poll based on lack of knowledge.

And if you don't like this response, then........

[barnesy1977]

Gfhug - you seem to have misunderstood my reply to Peter...where did I refer to any of his previous contributions ? I'm not referring to any of Peter's previous responses, or whether he has been a significant contributor or not - that's irrelevant. I'm sure from posting so many posts, that he has made some very helpful responses on here. I am referring to the 'specific' reply that he left me. I use forums quite alot and I can honestly say I've never had a comment made which has made my blood boil so much.

On the same basis as Peter's statement, then should I not be allowed a second child to prevent population increase ? I trust also that when Peter sells his house, that he will be selling it for the price he purchased it for so as to not encourage properties prices to increase thus pricing people out of the market ? Similarly, if Peter has an E Type then I trust also he will be selling that for less than market-value to prevent prices going up ?

Anybody who already owns an E-Type is very lucky should be grateful of the increase in value. Furthermore, how can I (alone) possibly control future prices of E-Types ? If I don't purchase a particular car, then someone else will do. The Forum is here for people to gain knowledge from others, and so when someone like myself who is clearly not an expert asks a valid question, why do some people feel the need to say 'oh you shouldn't be on here', or 'you shouldn't be buying one'. The reason I AM on here is to gain knowledge. You obviously feel some loyalty to Peter as you are both 'established' members in the group, but take a step back and imagine someone telling you that you shouldn't buy a particular car because they are going up in value! I am a little unclear on what you mean by "And if you don't like this response, then........" comment ? Are you suggesting I am not allowed to respond to you unless I agree with what you say ?

I had a great response from abowie - just what I was after. I don't understand the mentality of some people who can turn a simple and valid question into a negative argument.

[Gfhug]

Barnesy

Have you read through this part of the knowledge section? viewtopic.php?t=884

and noticed this:

Jaguar E-Type 3.8 and 4.2 Litre The Essential Buyers Guide - Peter Crespin, Veloce
Jaguar E-Type V12 5.3 Litre The Essential Buyers Guide - Peter Crespin, Veloce

There's lots of information out there that would have part answered your first post. Including this: viewtopic.php?t=890 which includes comments about the investment value or otherwise.
Peter's books and some of the others were very useful when I started searching for and buying an E Type. He and others speak from long knowledge of the car and the ups and downs of ownership and the vagaries of prices going up and down.

Maybe that'll let you appreciate Peter's posting and mine.

[Heuer]

Any way, back on topic ............... Best value at the moment is the S2 FHC or OTS particularly those imported from the US. They are also probably the most usable as they benefit from all the Jaguar development work through the production years. The S3 is a glorious touring machine but the fuel consumption puts a lot of people off. You do not say if you want a restoration project, rolling restoration or fully restored car which would help with offering advice.

I think Peter was saying your first priority is to find a good, useable car which is not going to rapidly become a money pit. They are complex cars structurally and very expensive to put right. If you get your money back after years of enjoyment that is a bonus but probably should not be your starting point.

Suggest you contact Angus Moss (www.mossjaguar.com) and see if he has anything suitable in stock or he can advise/survey on any car you are thinking of buying.

This is also worth a read: viewtopic.php?t=890

[Durango2k]

First of all, get a buyers guide. This one explains which model relates to the others in which ratio value-wise, so you'd get a better idea:

(Hint- have a look at the author).

Then, being a family man myself and not rich, yet still wanting and restoring a Series 1 2+2, I must say that I do not like rising prices. Problem is you cannot justify the insurance for a 70 grand car when there's a child to rise and feed, you cannot leave the car uninsured because of theft and other damage possibilities, so in fact with not enough dough you cannot own an E-Type, which is somewhat "not fair", because you could, in the past. And parts do rise in price, ask me how I know, with these cars going up. Why sell a chain for 10 if you could sell it for 25 when the car it goes in is worth north of 200K?

If its really an investment, and you want to be on the safe side with your cash, a classic car may not be what you need in these times. Maybe better buy gold. Its not expensive compared to the paper money universe, its not driven out like shares, and it won't collapse like classic car prices when the EU turns upside down which it will.

Carsten

[barnesy1977]

gfhug - many thanks for the links - I will take a look at those and consider the books you also mentioned. With regards to appreciation of what books Peter has written - again it has absolutely no relevance to, and does not justify the comment that was made to me.

Heuer and Carsten- thankyou so much for your info. Just to clarify, I am looking to purchase an E-Type as a huge car enthusiast, but also as an investment in that I would like to purchase the correct model most likely to rise in value in years to come.

Although mechanically I'm competent and interested enough to spend my own time restoring one, I have no experience at all of bodywork so I think with this in mind (and not to mention a family and a demanding job) I would be looking for a working/usable model - maybe 6-8 out of 10 in terms of condition. I think a S2 FHC is my best option.

Thanks again.

[Durango2k]

Then call Angus Moss, he's the man to talk to in S2 things.

For me, it had to be an S1, and a 2+2 because I'm tall and we're three....

Carsten

[Quattrofrank]

Why not just buy the one you want?
If a series 1 increase in value, the series 2 and 3 are likely to rise as well and the same if it devalues.
I think buying a series 2 or 3 will keep you less exposed for value decrease but also increase.

[christopher storey]

My Father in Law always used to say that people do not ask for professional advice - they come for reassurance that the irrevocable step they have just taken was the correct one. This thread seems to have the same flavour - Barnes only wishes to receive advice which conforms to the view he wishes to hold - and thus the exercise seems completely pointless, and his reply to Peter Crespin was both rude and arrogant

I should perhaps add that rudeness of the sort shown by the original poster to Peter Crespin will have been noted by the various restorers who all look at this site . Who would want a client like that ?

[PeterCrespin]

Peter what a pathetic response!

If you having nothing constructive to write or a relevant opinion on the initial query then take your troll-like opinions elsewhere. How dare you write such a message to somebody!

I dared, David, because you asked me to.

You asked for 'any' opinions/comments. It appears you only wanted supportive comments. It would have helped if you had spelled that out in the first place. I wrote what I wrote sincerely and politely. You appear to be struggling a bit with the latter concept, but we're a good bunch here. Except for the odd recidivist like me.

In your initial post you clearly had not the foggiest idea of the various E-type models, considering cars have been such a huge part of your life. The ONLY clue you gave as to motivation for posting here was that you wanted advice 'from an investment point of view'.

Had you asked about any other criterion instead, or as well, I might not have made the mistake of thinking you to be unaware of even the most rudimentary E-type knowledge and would have recognized you as a red-blooded 20W/50 fellow traveller on life's oil-spattered asphalt highway. My sincerest apologies.

Peter

[Simon P]

So, basically, the one thing everyone's agreed on is that the choice of the discerning cognoscenti is the S2 FHC...

:D :D :D

[malcolm]

I thought we'd all decided that as the cheapest of the series, a 2+2 S2 was the best bet?

[Heuer]

I thought we'd all decided that Pete was the best of the series - got to say he always brings a smile to your face!

[Heuer]

David Barnes aka 'barnesy1977' asked a valid question in this thread and received valid answers even if they did not necessarily agree with what he wanted to hear. The E-Type Forum is constantly held up as a beacon of friendliness and the ultimate source of E-Type information and in the eight years since its inception we have never had to caution anyone about their behaviour. His remarks to Pete, Geoff, Christopher and the use of the PM system to send abuse have however crossed the line and I have no alternative but to cancel his membership.