[edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

[BRB]

Thank you Joe. So I'll install the canister and filter without any additional seals around the middle.

Anyone any ideas for the filter housing drain screw seal by any chance?
Best regards,

[paydase]

Happy to see that others are following suite on retrofitting

I have disassembled the previous spin on oil filter adapter assembly.
In retrospect, from the pieces shown, one can imagine that the oil flow may indeed have been hampered by the small size holes and reduced overall flow allowed through such pieces.
Fortunately the engine was not extensively used since its rebuild and I never noticed specific oil pressure issues.

oil cleaner spin on adapter.jpg (138.46 KiB) Viewed 9382 times

I have received the ordered canister and bolt from the source indicated before and fortunately they fit well, see e.g. for the bolt (take care that the 3.8 bolt is different from the 4.2 bolt!):

oil cleaner bolt.jpg (194.31 KiB) Viewed 9382 times

I have also sourced missing elements from SNGB.
Unfortunately, they do not have the washer 6160 to compress the felt washer and the spring at bottom of the canister (piece number 4 in the attached sketch):

factory fit 3.8.jpg (57.64 KiB) Viewed 9382 times

SNGB could not tell me either what the specs of such a washer are. I imagine that a simple 10 mm internal diameter steel washer may work as the bolt seems to have a 3/8 inch external diameter (around 9.5 mm).
Please confirm.

I had not disassembled the drain screw from the oil cleaner before draining (actually at that time I did not know that this could be done...).
So, for the time being I do not need a new drain screw seal, but in case I would also be interested to know the specs or a source for such a seal.

[BRB]

When ordering the parts, I also couldn’t source the washer 6160. I finally took a large washer with ID 3/8” and took its outer diametre down to 23 mm, to make sure it can compress the felt washer, but without hitting the recess in the pressure plate.

Not having any better ideas for the drain plug seal 8752, I finally resorted to using a copper washer from hydraulic fittings with ID/OD = 10.2/13.8 mm and 0.9 mm thickness. I spun the engine on the starter motor, and the drain plug appears leak tight. Not sure about the canister yet, but I’ll see after the first engine start-up.

[Heuer]

The drain bolt has a copper washer - size it by eye! Ditto with washer #4 - it is only there to keep the spring from gouging the felt washer.

[paydase]

Follow-up with an unpleasant outcome for the time being.
Hint: big leak at the junction between the canister and the filter housing to be resolved

So first, I re-assembled the filled canister on the oil filter housing, using the assembly sequence provided by David:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9160&p=71334&hilit= ... lip#p71334

Not easy to catch the thread on the center of the housing with the long bolt as it naturally hangs down a bit but after some efforts it came...
More importanatly, maybe a mistake I did was to put both seal rings (a thin one and another thicker) provided by SNGB with the oile filter (piece n° 10).
Actually I hesitated as that kind of assembly did not seem appropriate to me at first, but there was room to do it in the filter housing groove and I thought that maybe they would fill better the groove and they would be compressed anyway.

The assembly looked good and tight, and I gently tightened the bolt until the external rubber seal started to shrink.

P1190234.jpg (134.71 KiB) Viewed 9306 times

Filling the engine with oil revealed no leak at this stage.
I then first cranked the engine without choke, not to have it firing, in order to fill the oil filter with oil and ensure oil flow before running the engine.
Still no leak.
I then started the engine and let it idle during about 20 seconds.
But I quickly noticed that the oil pressure was null and then decided to stop the engine to have a look under it and check for possible leaks.
And that was the outcome

P1190239.jpg (167.11 KiB) Viewed 9306 times

A severe leak between the canister and the filter housing:

P1190245.jpg (193.44 KiB) Viewed 9306 times

So my questions to help me resolving the issue:
- are the zero oil pressure at starting and the oil spillage signals that maybe I wrecked the assembly with the two seals? Or else?
- should I disassembly everything and rebuild with only the thicker seal? and put some glue?
- additionally, could the running of the engine for 20 secondes with zero pressure (and maybe no oil flow at all) damage internals or was that sequence too short?

Thanks for your help

[Heuer]

I did the same although I did not realise the old ring was still in the housing groove Use the new rubber seal and dump the old one. No need for anything else. No glue or silicone.

Try again, no damage other than hurt pride!

[paydase]

Actually there was no old ring in the groove, it was neat.
But SNGB provides the filter with two rings, one thick and one thin, with the same diameter:

f57485c8-e7c6-4355-a461-ed28d0115b49.png (65.19 KiB) Viewed 9283 times

The thicker ring looked to be the most appropriate, but I saw no other place for the thinner one and I could not understand why SNGB would deliver two rings if not to be used, especially that the filter housing seems to be the same for the 3.8 and for the 4.2, so not one or the other.
I then decided to put the thin ring under the thick one, especially because the groove looked deep and maybe thinner in its bottom to possibly host two rings, one packed above the other.
My mistake...

So David, if I understand correctly your advice, I will bin the thin (new) ring and only reassembly with the thick (also new) one.
Thx for the encouragements

[BRB]

What a coincidence: I am having similar issues. I think I removed all old seals from the filter housing (not so easy to see) and inserted only the thin seal. To fill the canister with oil, I cranked the engine using the solenoid button behind the battery with the ignition off, to avoid starting the engine. The cannister leaked between the housing and canister. Subsequently I emptied the canister using the drain plug on the housing (nice feature), but I think is wasn't completely filled yet, judging from the amount that came out.

I dismantled everything, tried to clean it all up, and made sure the canister didn't rotate while I retightened the bolt when re-installing. Indeed I found it a bit tricky to tighten the bolt and keep the canister pressed against the housing when doing so. Second attempt by cranking the engine to fill the canister revealed a smaller oil leak, but it still not tight.

I cannot continue this week due to other activities, but I intend to remove the thin seal (didn't come out after the first attempt) to make sure the groove is really clean. Also maybe I should verify if the canister is nicely round w.r.t. housing?

Another observation: I have a small voltmeter inserted in the cigar lighter in the dash. During the cranking it showed only 1 or 2 volts. If this is reliable, than I should not expect to be able to read the oil pressure during cranking on the gauge. Since my dash is still partly disassembled, I cannot switch on the ignition (and the rest of the car) on, so cannot say what pressure is observed during cranking.

The canister I bought from the ebay, had the same blue colour as yours Serge. Before installation I painted it grey hammer finish to fit better with all other items in the engine bay in this area (could not find the original green hammer finish). Perhaps I should make sure the paint isn't too thick where it inserts in the housing groove.

[paydase]

Thank you for your useful feedback, Jan.
Seeems that we have the same problem indeed.
On my side I had also carefully cleaned the groove before assembling with the new seal(s) and oiled the surfaces of the canister and seals.
When assembled, the canister could not be moved sideways and the seal aspect looked homogeneous all around, so that I believed that the bolting was good enough and the canister correctly seated, and the sealing correct and tight (see picture). Unfortunately not!

P1190235.jpg (237.17 KiB) Viewed 9269 times

If I understand correctly, you assembled the canister on the housing only using the thinner ring.
If I had to use only one ring, I'd better use the thicker one as the thin one does not seem to properly fill up the groove and I would also fear that it would be pushed sideways by the canister when threading the bolt.

Also did you screw the bolt until the external rubber seal at its top was stretched or when did you stop screwing?
I was also thinking to add an additional shim betwen that rubber seal and the (small) head of the bolt to increase the contact surface and avoid a leak at that level as I am not sure it will remain leak tight because of the stretch (although there seems to be no leak for the time being)...

[mgcjag]

Only use one ring..the larger one....Steve

[BRB]

Thank you for the tip Steve, I'll switch to the larger seal.

Serge: The seal under the bolt head is rather thick, but when I screwed it in, it was easily squeezed until the bolt head almost touched the canister. The bolt head has an integrated large washer, so squeezes this top seal rather uniformly. Will take I picture when I am back.

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

[mgcjag]

Looking at the photo Serg posted above he dosnt have the washer under the bolt head?

[paydase]

That's right, Steve, hence my question.
Maybe a bolt from a different source (same source than for the canister that I indicated before).

I will therefore add a washer that will help pressing more tightly bothe that small seal and the large seal between the canister and the filter housing.

[Heuer]

The original bolt incorporates a hex head and washer as one pre-formed assembly:



If you are using a plain hex head bolt you need a suitable washer.

[paydase]

Indeed, my bolt does not incorporate a washer:

bolt 3.8.jpg (233.48 KiB) Viewed 9212 times

The bolt for the 4.2 engine does, but was not suited as the seller told me it has a different thread pitch, because of the additional piece to which this bolt is screwed in the 4.2 assembly:

bolt 4.2.jpg (214.82 KiB) Viewed 9212 times

For that issue, it's a simple fix: I will add a washer

[MikeMilton]

Since we are installing an oil cooler and pre-oiler, either a oberg or clearview filter are also being considered. Both use stainless filtration disks which are available in several sizes (from 5-over 100 microns). Both also have solutions for flow rates from 5-20 GPM.

This seems to offer a ‘solution’ to the variability of paper filter quality and a better solution than cutting open spin on cans to inspect them (and the SS disks are reusable, not that there is a cost savings)

Any thoughts on the approach would be welcome. Seeing into the clearview seems to be an advantage.

Also, I’ll be sure to provide feedback when we are up and running.

[paydase]

Did it again and succeeded.
My reporting here under to possibly help those willing to do the same retroffitting.

Following the advices, I disassembled everything and
- put an additional shim between the bolt head and the canister;
- removed the thin rubber seal to let only the thicker one in the groove of the filter housing;
- reassembled the canister on the oil filter housing.

The most challenging task was again to find the good bolt centering in the canister to have the bolt catching the thread of the filter housing, and to have the rubber seal remaining properly sitting in the groove during the bolting
I wanted to ensure the correct sitting of the rubber seal to avoid again a spill.
A pita because the seal does not fully fill the groove IMO and because of the tendency of the canister to rip sideways on the seal while tightening it...

Finally did it:

P1190272.jpg (195.69 KiB) Viewed 9152 times

Filling the engine with the remaining oil and some more. I realise that I lost 3-4 L on the ground...
Cranking.
Happy to see that this time the oil pressure needle rises to 20 psi within a couple of seconds and quickly stabilises around 30 psi at idle.
No oil puddle underneath.
After a 30 mn tour, back home I check that there is no leak at all :

P1190279.jpg (253.33 KiB) Viewed 9152 times

Everything all right finally!
Thanks again for the good advices .

[Heuer]

The original bolt has a tapered end to aid location:

[paydase]

The bolt I bought, although not having a shim pressed to its hex head, has a tapered end.

I thing the difficulty to ensure a good centering of the bolt is the design of the assembly itself.
The disk (piece nr. 6) that is pressed on the filter by the spring near of the bolt head has a diameter that is a few mm smaller than the inside of the canister.
That leads to the tapered end of the bolt hanging down by a cm or so when approaching laterally the canister assembly from the filter housing.
Also, the design of the body of the filter housing that hosts the threaded part, with multiple ribs and holes around the centre does not help because these holes/ribs can catch the tapered end instead of the centre itself.

Maybe that is the reason why Jaguar modified the design of the assmbly for the 4.2, adding two pieces:
- first a clamping plate (piece nr. 12 here under) to help keeping the rubber seal well centered inside the groove in the filter housing; and
- an anchor insert (piece nr. 11) to press the plate nr. 12 and also maybe for easier catching of the tapered end of the bolt.

factory fit 4.2.jpg (62.03 KiB) Viewed 9119 times

See for refrence that the same pieces 11 and 12 do not exist in the 3.8 assembly:

factory fit 3.8.jpg (57.64 KiB) Viewed 9119 times

[Heuer]

Yes, they modified the filter housing again for the S2 cars so it was a problem back in the day. At least you don't have to change the filter that often and whilst it may be a bit of a fiddle that is part of the joy of owning an old car