Water Wetter

[Tony]

Does Water Wetter work and is it worth putting in my coolant system when I do not seem to have a problem with my cooling system.
I was just thinking about my tour to France in August and if it would be of any benefit having it in my system.

I have heard somewhere it forms strand which can clog up the cooling system?

[PeterCrespin]

Water wetter is totally soluble and doesn't form strands. You're thinking of cooling system sealants I expect.

You said it yourself Tony - you don't have any problems. Ergo, you don't need water wetter. At best in a normal road car it's a crutch to cover up a problem in the system system, but since you don't have any problems....

The other use is in race cars where they run only water, rather than less effective glycol mixtures. In those cases, the WW gives a useful dose of surfactant and corrosion inhibitor but since any existing antifreeze mix already provdes those it is only a real benefit in race cars using water. The surfactant helps get round 'hot spot' localised boiling, but again a road Jag correctly maintained and filled should not have such issues. Hence 99% of the time WW is a 'solution' looking for a problem IMHO.

It's not likely to do any harm, so worried people use it 'just in case' and the company makes money and the world goes round.

[Heuer]

I have used it on and off for years and it does seem to reduce running temperatures by about 5c although the manufacturer claims double that. As Pete says, a well maintained cooling system you should not have a problem however if you find yourself stuck in slow moving traffic on a hot day (e.g. try the autoroute tunnel under Reims or queuing at the Peage behind a Belgian car*) you really do need every little bit of help. An E-Type will not overheat when moving but it was never designed to mingle with the clutter of modern traffic. For the relatively low cost put a bottle in and be done with it.

* from personal observation. Belgian credit cards do not seem to work on the automatic toll booths but you have to admire their tenacity - they keep on trying! Eventually everyone has to reverse to let them go to a cash booth. Not a problem if you have bought a APRR tele-peage dongle though.

[PeterCrespin]

David, about your dongle..

I'm off to France/Belgium tomorrow and again for a week in mid May and possibly for the Spa 24hrs in September, so I'm tempted. But...

Howl ong is the lead time (can you buy them en route for example?). How much is the set-up charge? Is there any tariff reduction for 'dongleurs'? My car is LHD so I can hack it at the toll booths, but if it's cheap, quick and easy I'm interested. Goes with my character...

[Heuer]

Pete

Our dongle was delivered within a week by special delivery. You only pay an extra 1.50 euros/month (on top of the tolls) for those months you use the autoroutes. So we 'bought' ours (you never actually own them) in November but there have been no charges as we have not been to France. No discounts for use, just the ability to sail past the queuing traffic at the conventional booths. No stopping, just slow to about 30mph. You get a monthly bill for the months you used the roads on your credit card statement. You can 'borrow' the dongles at some nominated service areas but most require a French Bank account. APRR are one of the few providers that still cater for non French residents by putting the bill on your credit card and you can subscribe online and there is no deposit payable. Only SANEF allow you to 'rent' a dongle at their service areas. Dongles last for about 8 years or until the battery runs out when they send you a new one.

More info:

[PeterCrespin]

Merci beaucoup monsieur David.

Alas, I'm a day late and a dollar short, as my wife would say... Never mind. I intend to avoid autoroutes where I can.

Am looknig forward to staying in Jaguar's Le Mans hotel from the 50s and looking in at their garage in the town.

[Heuer]

Get one at area 12 on the A16 en route to Le Mans. You don't need to hand it back, just keep it for use each time you are in France. They hide the SANEF offices and they are not easy to find - look for signs saying: 'T?l?p?age disponible en gare'

Other offices as below:


Bit of a faff so get one over the web before you go if you can.

So, in summary:

A 30 euros refundable deposit on dongle
APRR - no dongle deposit if you order over internet
Monthly charge - 2 euros, or 1.5 euros if you are happy with downloaded bill, per month for each month you use the autoroutes
Standard tolls apply
Charged to UK credit card
Rolling life, get one now and keep it for years
Reserved tele-peage lanes, no queuing

[christopher storey]

Alas, I'm a day late and a dollar short,

Is this the same as one sandwich short of a picnic??

[Phil]

* from personal observation. Belgian credit cards do not seem to work on the automatic toll booths but you have to admire their tenacity - they keep on trying! Eventually everyone has to reverse to let them go to a cash booth

I must be special then ?! I use my credit card for many years at the p?age in France and I am very satisfied for avoiding the long queues of people still paying cash.

Pete, enjoy your trip to France ! safe and fun driving 8)

[PeterCrespin]

Not France really this weekend, except en passant.

Brugge tomorrow, then a few days with family in Antwerpen.

Someone said to watch the film 'In Bruges' with Ralph Feinnes, so my wife got it out tonight. Turns out she hated it as it was all guns blood and guts! Still, she saw a few places she want's to visit so I hope the street access is more E-type friendly than it looks and the underground parking at the hotel doesn't involve losing any paint... I've only stayed outside the old city before.

[Larry Wade]

Hey Peter,

I disagree with you. Water wetter gives a bit more margin.

Like David I find that my car runs about 5 C cooler with water wetter. Most of us in the Western US use it. Between water wetter and a coolcat fan I can run at 90+mph in >115 F weather for a few hundred miles (true story) or get stuck in a huge traffic jam in LA in >105 F weather (all too frequently true story).

It's not a matter of covering up a problem. In today's cars they run 16 psia....quite a bit higher pressures than the 4 psia my 3.8 is supposed to be pressurized to. By doing so they gain ~20 C in the boiling point of a 50/50 coolant mixture. Even the later 3.8's (starting 879044) upped the pressure to 9 psi...a major improvement but still low compared to today's cars.

I see no downside to water wetter. The upsides are a bit more margin and a bit better corrosion protection (never a bad thing with an e-type). It's effect is equivalent to running the cooling system at about 3 psi higher pressure...still lower than a modern car but an improvement nonetheless.

It's good stuff.

Larry

PS another way to look at it is that the boiling point while driving at 6,000' altitude with water wetter is the same as that at sea-level without water wetter.

[Larry Wade]

Oops, that's psig not psia.


Sorry,
Larry

[Tony]

So the consensus is, it will do no harm and it may do some good? On a technical note, if it bring the water temp down 5 degs, will the thermostat not bring it back up again. But thinking about it again , the thermostats roll is to increase temperature not reduce it. I think I may have answered my own question.

It's good to think, even if you may draw the wrong conclusion.

Thanks for the advise

[Heuer]

Following on from the earlier discussion about the French telepeage badge. As we are about to head off into France again I thought I should dig out the Liber-t gizmo but to my horror I could not find it anywhere. Decided to subscribe to a new one and placed the order at 8:00 pm on Monday. Needless to say my wife found it on Tuesday morning so I tried to cancel but their help desk said it had already been dispatched. True to their word it arrived in this morning's post which is quite good service. Now have a spare (it costs nothing until you use it) but unfortunately I can't donate it to anyone as I would end up footing the toll charges on my credit card. Must remember not to take both or we will be charged twice!

So if you are heading over to France well worth getting one to avoid being stuck in this:



An E-Type ticking over in the midst of this lot with ambient temperatures of 30C + does not bear thinking about. It would take about 40 minutes to get to pay with either cash or credit card. The two telepeage booth's are on the left.

[PeterCrespin]

Could you not change the credit card details on line in the way one would if, say, an existing card had expired or been lost? I guess they wouldn't wear the simultaneous address change, along with a re-naming :-)

Failing that, one might perhaps be confident in a gentleman's agreement between friends to settle up in a timely manner, once the post-trip bill arrived?

Did you say they had a time limit on them?

Pete

[Heuer]

Eight years when the battery runs out or, of course, if your credit card expires. With all the to 'ing and fro 'ing we did discover the CC on our first dongle had expired but a (too) quick call to their Help Desk by my wife ensured we had use of both barrels. Why are women so process driven?

Not sure it is worth the hassle of changing name, address and CC details given these things are free but I will look into it. Ditto with borrowing it out purely from the admin point of view.