Lemford sealed front Balljoint

[mgcjag]

Hi All..just for info...not just Lemford but any front sealed joint....Read this befor buying...Steve https://forums.jag-lovers.com/t/lemford ... int/455271

[angelw]

Hello Steve,
And don't rely on asking the supplier if what they supply is correct, for you will most likely get the stock answer, "we have never had anyone complain about that before", and the part is correct.

Have the supplier provide the Spigot measurement and make your decision to purchase based on whether the part is fit for purpose.

Regards,

Bill

[Gfhug]

And don't rely on asking the supplier if what they supply is correct, for you will most likely get the stock answer, "we have never had anyone complain about that before", and the part is correct.

Regards,

Bill

Just had exactly that answer from a certain well known supplier, particularly galling when I had pointed them to the Jaglovers website with Bill’s comments

Steve or Bill, do either of you know where we can buy the correct part from Lemforder or one of their distributors? And do you have the Lemforder part number. (It may be in that link above but I’ve not read every post yet)

Geoff

[mgcjag]

Hi Geoff....you will see in that link that Bill machined rings and fitted and machined the balljoints....so this would point to correct joints not being available.....he did offer them for sale.....personally if the fit was loose I would cut a ring of shim stock....Steve ..ps one of my posts said to look for the red ring old stock....but no guarantee these are correct..

[mgcjag]

It's interesting Geoff....with all restorations going on I assume loose joints are being fitted as no-one else has posted about this

[Gfhug]

Thanks Steve. It’s the lack of interest from the supplier to admit the parts aren’t correct. Just the standard comments that it got the correct part number and no-one else has complained. Yes, lots of loose joints, there I was thinking joints got stiff with age

A quick look on Lemforder website gave this:

https://aftermarket.zf.com/en/aftermark ... untryID=GB

Not sure if it’s the right one or available

Geoff

[mgcjag]

Geoff....you are obviously the man in the right position to to let us know what part number fits..

[40GT]

I was in this position last month, with the suspension all over the garage floor I had to adapt the joint, I machined it down to a smaller diameter and fitted a ring that took up the slack, not something one should have to do.

[mgcjag]

You do realise that these sealed lower balljoints are not really an E type part.....originally I think first used on the XJ40 then they were used for E types but not at the factory......what you really need to beware of is that on some of the joints on offer(non Lemforder) the 4 bolt holes do not line up with the threads in the upright.....some have resorted to opening up the holes...not reccomend.....Steve

[Gfhug]

The irony is that though they are not original E Type parts they are offered by a certain parts supplier as being an ungraded item we can now use on the E.
Geoff

[mgcjag]

Hi Geoff....lots of things are sold as "upgrades".....are they actually better?.....as always beware aftermarket parts as they probably don't fit as per originals....Steve

[40GT]

Yes I realised these are not E parts, they were fine regarding bolt holes, in fact they were exactly right and there were no other problems but for the main seating diameter.

[angelw]

Steve Wrote :

Hi Geoff....lots of things are sold as "upgrades".....are they actually better?.....as always beware aftermarket parts as they probably don't fit as per originals....Steve

Hello Steve,
Quite a few parts are stated as being upgrades, and in fact, a more accurate description would be a down grade part. The Drawn Cup, Needle Roller Bearing for the gear box first motion shaft, SNGB offer two versions, a Cage Guided and a Full Complement type, with the Full Complement type being their so called Upgrade. This is clearly a Down Grade, as the Full Complement versions is prone to developing far more heat and the rollers to skew and promote wear of the journal they run on.

Sealed Lower Ball Joints were first introduced in the XJ40 model Jaguar, and I believe Lemforder was the brand used. Lemforder WAS my go to brand for the conversion of the E Type, but there are no longer any Lemforder, or other makes that have a good spigot fit the the bore of the E Type stub axle holder upright. I still modify the available sealed units to make them a good fit.

Regards,

Bill

[angelw]

Geoff Wrote:

Not sure if it’s the right one or available

No they are not. I saw an email from Lemforder to a member of JL, stating that the Red banded model is no longer made, and that the alternative, which has a smaller diameter spigot diameter is a suitable repair replacement. Not in my opinion are they suitable.

I now use the TRW part as the donor for my modification to make them a good fit. The attached picture shows the before (on the right) of the available Lemforder brand part (the part sold by SNGB), and the after my fix.



Regards,

Bill

[Gfhug]

Bill, thanks for your feedback. Looking in my parts bins I found a couple of unused CAC9937 sealed ball joints which are NLA and you now have to buy the JLM11860. I shall see if they fit or shall continue with the old ball joints and not “upgrade”.
Thanks to all for their contributions.

Geoff

[mgcjag]

Just for info iv just flagged this up to Julian Barrett at SNGB.....Steve

[Gfhug]

Good for you Steve. FYI I saw the red ones advertised on another Jaguar spares website but on inspection they were all the blue ones.

Geoff

[angelw]

Steve Wrote:

Just for info iv just flagged this up to Julian Barrett at SNGB.....Steve

Hello Steve,
Is Julian even still involved since the sale of SNGB? There is a fellow by the name of Matt Wells whom I believe to be the CEO, or operations manager.

I've discussed the issue of the sealed ball joint with SNGB in great detail. Nothing came of it, I just got the stock answer that they had sold so many and my complaint is the only one they had received, hence my reason for carrying out the modification to make them fit the stub axle carrier correctly.

Another part that SNGB make in house that is rubbish, is the rear brake air ducts for a Series 3 E Type. There are two chances of their parts fitting, Buckley's and None. The following pictures are just two of many I sent to SNGB.
In the first picture below below, that's a 16mm wooden packer you can see in the top, left quarter of the picture so as to show SNGB how impossible to fit their part to the car. The folded edge in the location of the wooden packer should be secured to the underside of the car with self tapping screw. Even with 5/16" bolts to pull that edge up to floor would result in a distorted mess. The second picture is a comparison of the SNGB part with an original part. You can see how futile it is to attempt to fit this part.





SNGB got me to send dimensions of the original part, and they came back stating that their drawing was wrong. Wouldn't you think that in even in a lame Quality Control program, that someone would have checked to see if their parts were actually fit for purpose?

Another is the Lucas direction turn indicator switch assembly for S1 cars. These have no chance of being able to be fitted without mutilating the steering column shroud that conceals the working mechanism of the switch. The shroud for the S1 is made from zinc based die cast, and is much sought after for an authentic restoration. Mutilating this part will enable fitting of the assembly, but the resulting appearance is horrible.

I offered to design the fix of the die pro bono, and that was originally met with some enthusiasm, but they never followed up on that. That was circa four years ago and it was only when Steve Snape came to Australia and visited my workshop last year, that he informed me that the issue had been recently fixed. By that time, I had copied the part of focus from an original assembly and 3D printed a correct part which allowed me to fix the clients original assembly. So, whether the issue is actually fixed, I have no idea.

These parts are expensive, and its difficult to tell a client, "good news, your new part has arrived, however, the bad new is that I've had to spend twice the cost of the part to get it to fit and function" Do that, and the client thinks you're trying to rip them off.

Regards,

Bill

[mgcjag]

Please let's keep this thread to balljoints.....if you have issues with parts then start a new thread.....or we just end up with a long list of complaints....Bill...yes Julian is still very much involved with SNGB.....Steve

[angelw]

Hello Geoff,
The Red banded model is no longer made, with you only chance of getting that type, is to stumble onto someone with NOS. The most sure way of getting a part that fits correctly, is with my fix.

Regards,
Bill