Wire wheel balance issues

martyxke · Post by **martyxke** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:43 pm

Im not sure if this has been discussed on previous threads, but I thought I would mention my experiences.
I have had my S1 for nearly 30 years, restoring her in the eighties, but in all that time I have struggled with wheel wobble. Over the years I have overhauled everything, I have lost count of the amount of times the wheels have been balanced, I rebuilt the rack ( very straight forward) replaced track rod ends, all the bushes have been done too, along with drop links, alignment etc etc. And all to no avail, the wobble was always there, with varying degrees of severity. Until one day I just got so fed up I pulled all the weights from one of the rims, and guess what, the wheels felt better. I subsequently went on to do all four wheels, testing the results each time. It turns out the modern balance machines don't center the wire wheels properly, and the machines cone locates on the spoke heads in the wheel center, instead of on the hub taper. If this has been happening to you, its easy to mark each weight's position prior to removal, and give it a try. Its very satisfying when something for nothing is so effective.
As a little footnote, the best thing I have ever found for cleaning the wheels is a product called JENOLITE. If your wheels have rust on them the result is amazing, paint it on, agitate it with a toothbrush, and rinse the rust away, truly amazing, and so much easier on the fingers than metal polish :)

Woolfi · Post by **Woolfi** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:21 pm

To balance a wire wheel correct, you have to fix it correct to the balancing machine. A company called HAWEKA in Germany is producing and selling a tool, which is fixing the wheel exactly. The outer side of the wheel center is fixed on the outside. The normal fixing tool at a wheel service garage is fixing the outer side of the wheel inside in the center hole, like ALL normal rims. Most of the workers of a wheel service don't know the difference. The balance the wire wheel, controll the result and have a zero / zero. If they would turn therim an the machine by 90 to 180 degree, the reslut would be like 30 / 50 gr out of balance. Because they have seen zero / zero they think "well done". Wrong ! ! !
I have bought f?r 210 Euros a complete set. 5 pices. 2 distance peices, inner fixing toll , 2 outer fixing tool for 52mm and 42 mm rims. We habe balanced 4 wheels with this tool. The result is wobble-free !
If the rim itself is out of correct round-turning, you can balance to zero / zero, but you still feel a wobble, because of low/high moving of the wheel-ecenter on the street.
The code of the special jag-wheel tool is 162e400002. Check in google.
Haweka is offering theses tools for different balancing machines. 38 mm and 40 mm diameter of the "arm" of the balancing machine.
Their home-page is not very good. It takes time, to find the correct tool. They have one sales-man, who knows this product very well and can inform you at the phone.
Regards Wolfgang Gatza

martyxke · Post by **martyxke** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:58 am

Thanks for that Woolfi. I will do some research :)

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:12 am

Speak to Dougal at Longstone Tyres. They had a dynamic wheel balancer modified at great expense to do wire's and they no longer use it relying on a bubble balance. Long explanation of why dynamic balancers cannot be used on wire wheels but essentially it is down to the relationship of the hub to the rim which in turn confuses the computer and it starts suggesting lots of weights all over the wheel.

kingzetts · Post by **kingzetts** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:25 pm

I found that my old wires (I think they were MWS) could be balanced satisfactorily on a dynamic machine by my local garage using an adapter I made from an old splined hub and spinner which achieved the same result as the tool described by Wolfgang of replicating how the wheel is mounted on the car.

This was after I had had CMC balance them using the static bubble method which did not produce an acceptable result, not sure why, just stating my experience.

I now have new Dayton's and these are designed with machined faces allowing them to be balanced on standard balancers without the use of adapters, and again I have had good results at my local garage.

Woolfi · Post by **Woolfi** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:18 pm

I say again, that a tire service has balanced 4 wire-wheels (MWS 6,5") with the tool from HAWEKA. The result was good. Still there is little wobble in both front wheels, but very small.
A friend of me has a balacing machine. In November, when I will have stopped using the car, I will take the wheels to him and balance again by my own. Spending some time, hoping to get a better result.
Regards Wolfgang Gatza

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:51 pm

I used to balance road and race wires for my bikes using the wheel axle and adding weight opposite the low point.

I've done the same with E-type wires using a hard 3/8" steel rod passed through the open centre of the wheel hubs and resting on two blocks (check for run-out first on a front hub on the car). Wheels were fine for European speeds.

RogerM · Post by **RogerM** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:35 pm

There is a company called Smoothride who supply wire wheel balancing cones in two sizes.
Large for Jaguar and small for Triumph / MG etc
Their phone number is 024 7630 7411.
Various specialist now supply them.
There are adverts in the JEC and E Type Club magazines for these.

I have a set of large ones and Kwik Fit love them for balancing my wheels.

Post by **Heuer** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:53 pm

I spoke to Bob Peacock who makes these cones whilst I was at Stoneleigh. They are made of hard plastic and include two slip bushes to take car of any spindle variations on the balancer - I was most impressed. Forgot to take a picture unfortunately but here is the sales leaflet:

Bob suggests keeping them in the car because if you have a puncture on your travels you can get the tyre repaired and wheel balanced without worry.

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:21 pm

Yes, I too spoke to him today at Stonleigh and these cones will do the job splendidly as far as I can see

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:44 pm

I asked Bob for a photo to make up for my tardiness and he responded:

You get the cone on the left, the cone on the right (52mm) and the two slip bushes packed in the tubular carrying case. Superb idea which means you can get your wheels balanced properly on any dynamic balancer anywhere in the world. Such a good idea I am tempted to put it in the 'Upgrades Forum'!

vikla · Post by **vikla** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:44 pm

Fosseway also sell a set of cones

See http://www.fossewayperformance.co.uk/wi ... ncing-kit/

Alberto · Post by **Alberto** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:45 am

Has anyone tried on-car balancing to resolve this balancing issue? In the US it seems like it is available at a few (and presumably decreasing) number of establishments. The process seems to be a bit of a black art, in that they put a machine to the tire they are balancing and mostly by feel they decide where to put the weights (although the machine also provides feedback). There are a few videos of the process on youtube. I just mounted new tires on my wire wheels, and they supposedly used the cones (wasn't able to stick around to watch) to balance the wheels, but they put a BOAT load of weights on every wheel. I have not yet driven the car on the new tires/rebalanced wheel, but am seriously considering ripping off the weights and going to a shop nearby that offers on-car wheel balancing. Before I go through the effort, I was hoping anyone here has gone down this path and what their experience and results were.

Thank you in advance.

Alberto

Woolfi · Post by **Woolfi** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:03 am

First you have to test on the road. If there is no "wobble", all is okay. If not, YOU have to check, if the tire service has used the CORRECT cones for wire wheels. 98% of the idiots in such a tire service are too less intelligent to understand, that they have to use special cones.
Also they have to avoid, that the back plane surface of the wheel is touching the plane surface of the wire-wheel in the back of the wheel, when the wheel is fixed on the machine.
Regards Wolfgang Gatza

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:04 am

vikla wrote:Fosseway also sell a set of cones

See http://www.fossewayperformance.co.uk/wi ... ncing-kit/

I think they are the 'Smoothride' cones.

michael321 · Post by **michael321** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:14 am

I just received a beautiful set of 4 Dayton stainless wheels - and excited to get them on.

I wondered if anyone has tried bead balancing as opposed to machine balancing.. it almost sounds too good to be true so figuring there must be a drawback somewhere.. ?

http://www.innovativebalancing.com/

http://www.innovativebalancing.com/Classicchart.htm

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Wire wheel balance issues

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