Rear spring rates

and.nox · Post by **and.nox** » Tue May 05, 2015 1:18 am

Alti Ian,

Thanks for your comments. You clearly had the same problem I've got. What I don't understand is that Barratts can sell a set of springs specifically for this vehicle and it leaves the car sitting 25mm too low. I note the suggestion made by others that I should get different longer or stiffer springs but I'm not really inclined to keep experimenting and wasting more money. Anyway, I'll talk to Barratts and will certainly discuss the spacer option. Where did you get the spacers? Can you tell me what thickness spacer you used to increase your final ride height from 170mm to 225mm (increase of 55mm). Is the ride height still 225mm? In my case, I only need an increase of 25mm.

Lots of polyurethane spacers available on the market generally, particularly in the 4 wheel drive market. Critical thing is that their hardness is 90 Duro or greater. Yet to find any that will fit the standard E Type rear end.

Post by **mgcjag** » Tue May 05, 2015 8:04 am

Hi Andrew.....have a look here http://www.sngbarratt.com/ProductDetail ... a23265&l=7 Steve

and.nox · Post by **and.nox** » Tue May 05, 2015 10:25 am

Steve,

Thanks for that. Not sure that that's exactly what I'm after in that it doesn't appear to support and centralise the spring itself. I just spoke to Barratts and they recommended what they call a "packing ring" for the V12 E's (part no. C32062HA). The sales rep said it's 10mm thick and consequently should raise the ride height by about 3/4 inch (18mm). I hope he's correct. They're made of mild steel and I ordered four. We'll see how we go.

Andrew

and.nox · Post by **and.nox** » Sat May 16, 2015 8:33 am

Post Script:

Fitted the 10mm thick mild steel packing rings on the top of all springs. Job done and ride height was subsequently increased by about 22mm. Great result - perfect according to manual that suggests clearance of 200mm. Only issue was that the spacers (packing rings) had to be slightly modified to sit flat on the Boge shocks. Something for Barratts to improve on for the S3's.

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:44 pm

i have just dismantled my original rear springs and they measure up at 10 7/8 inch free length. There were no packing rings . This is a 66 4.2 series one. I am planning on keeping these as there are problem with the new replacement springs but they come up at 1/4 inch longer than the "later' springs as detailed at the start of this thread. I wonder how thick the packers are? point being if they are 1/4 inch it amounts to the extra length my springs are. Does anyone know? Also , why would they have packers rather than make a longer spring

Post by **mgcjag** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:47 pm

Hi Andrew....At the start of the thread you refer to the spec posted for the free spring length shown for later cars as10.5in....but this whole first section of the service manual is for 3.8 cars so my thoughts are that later means later 3.8s.... the 4.2 section gives no measurments...the only cars i know of that used the spacers were S3.... also dont know any one that used the SNG springs that had a car riding too high....the ones i know of were 7.25-7.5in when measured fron the lower lip of the irs base plate to the ground..

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:03 pm

ah right. Thanks then I need to see if there are measurements for free length on 4.2s . Anyone? thx

Alty Ian · Post by **Alty Ian** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:35 pm

Andrew

As you know the spring rate, thickness of springs and the number of coils are part of the equation.

On my S1 4.2 (Aug 64 built) the rear springs were as following picture;

The spring has 9 and a bit coils AND a 9mm thick spacer. I cant tell you the free length as havent taken them off the shockers.

On the car, the new springs (the ones discussed in earlier thread) have 11 coils and no spacer and the ride height is as follows after 6 months or so of sitting, I would say its about 2" higher than original but I wanted it about an inch higher anyway to help miss sleeping policemen. I dont know the free height of them either as they came assembled.

The only way to know for sure is to either load test a car with each alternative fitted or find someone clever enough to calculate it

Hope this helps a little bit?

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:42 pm

Thanks Ian. Yes I think it will be trial and error. It's just such a pain to keep stripping the springs off the shockers. Mind you I have a great tool for that. I think it was suggested on here by someone else. Two old e type discs have an internal hole diameter perfect to sit on top and bottom of the shockers. Connect the two with some studding rod and holding the bottom of the shocker in the vice the exercise is much easier than using clamps on the coils. Make sure your studding rod is heavy duty for obvious reasons and you will need some heavy duty spreading washers to fit through the holes in the discs. Doing it this way, that is pulling the top of the spring down, its surprising how little compression is required to remove the collets vs traditional method.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:24 pm

mgcjag wrote:...the only cars i know of that used the spacers were S3...

They came and went. s1s definitely used them at a couple of points. I thought they came in with the 2+2 but recall being surprised thry were fitted for a while before that and subsequrntly dropped. I think it's one of those issues where you need to look up the various changeover VINs.

The 2+2 theory made sense as it's a lot easier to restore ride height on a heavier tub with a packing piece (which raises the car much more than the thickness of the spacer) than specifying different springs per model.

Post by **mgcjag** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:19 pm

Hi Peter...yes should have made it a bit clearer.....was refering to S3 cars that wanted a bit of extra lift instead of making it sound like no other cars had spacers...

IAN......what is your current rear ride height in the 4.2...lower edge of irs base plate lip to ground...thanks

Alty Ian · Post by **Alty Ian** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:53 pm

Steve

I havent measured it and for the S1 it isnt stated in the manual either. I can only go off comparing the height of the rear wheel arch above the wheel rim with other cars.

On my S3 the manual says 200mm and mine is about 220mm after settling down with spacers fitted. It was 170mm before fitting the spacers.

Alty Ian · Post by **Alty Ian** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:33 pm

Andrew

I was thinking about the rear ride height and maybe having my old shockers and springs blasted and was looking at a picture of the new springs I fitted as shown below.

And I just realised that they appear to have spacers fitted.
This may explain the higher ride height, I wouldnt mind betting the spacers are intended for FHC's which are heavier and that I dont need them for an OTS.

Did anyone else notice if their units had spacers fitted that had high ride heights?

I am wondering if the spacers are actually there to accept the curved springs at the top wheras the bottom of the springs are flat and dont need a profiled spacer to accept/locate them?

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:22 pm

Both the series one 4.2 cars I have inspected do not have spacers. From memory there is no need to include a spacer for seating. The spring will fit directly regardless. I wouldn't mind betting that if you removed the spacer the car would drop in ride height by slightly more than the thickness of the spacer. Since the spring is under more tension with the spacer than without . I certainly think your car looks too high with it. I do have a spacer on my 3.8 FHC but I fitted CMC springs which they tell me are the only correct ones available as they were unhappy with the springs generally available.

edit. the tops and bottoms of the springs should be the same I would have thought?

Alty Ian · Post by **Alty Ian** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:51 pm

Think I will take one off the car and have a look at it.

MarekH · Post by **MarekH** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:00 pm

Spacers only ever get used because the correct springs are not being used. It's pretty inexcusable for any vendor to charge for them if they have just sold you the wrong length or strength spring in the first place.

The factory may well have fitted them to use up a stock of springs that they had as a cheap way of solving the problem of having the wrong springs for that particular car.

Owners may fit them as a way of prolonging the life of tired old springs or to deliberately alter the ride height from standard, but it is a bodge.

kind regards
Marek

Post by **mgcjag** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:53 pm

Hi Ian....from the look of those springs/dampers above the silver part is the packing ring part no C19027 shaped to centralise the top of the spring on the damper does a similar job as the lower coil spring seat C19820....as opposed to the damper spacers that are available

Alty Ian · Post by **Alty Ian** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:57 pm

mgcjag wrote:Hi Ian....from the look of those springs/dampers above the silver part is the packing ring part no C19027 shaped to centralise the top of the spring on the damper does a similar job as the lower coil spring seat C19820....as opposed to the damper spacers that are available

Yes, I'm pretty sure you are right. So I cant remove them otherwise the spring wont be centred.

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:24 pm

You don't need the spacer Ian. The bottom of the spring sits on washers that centralise the spring. Buy the washer to replace the spacer.

abowie · Post by **abowie** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:44 pm

Alty Ian wrote:Andrew

And I just realised that they appear to have spacers fitted

My original set from SNGB were the same as you show in the picture, with spacers about 3/8" or so thick and the "yellow spot" springs.

Removing the spacers didn't change much for me on my OTS and the springs wrong. I reused my original springs with success.

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